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waterflowx · Mar 14, 2008, 09:59 AM

I'm actually posting this on behalf of the girl with the issue who is a very old friend of mine from childhood and is going through an extremely tough situation. My friend's ex-boyfriend is a very dangerous and over possesive man who has beaten her on several occasions. They currently have a 1 year old baby. It was after the baby was born that the boyfriend started being overposessive and abusive. Only once was there a written report stating an abuse insident in which he almost killed her because she went out with friends and didn't want to come home because she was scared of him. He was arrested but bailed out by his mother. My friend did not pursue to pressing charges on his court date because she was afraid he wouldn't get any real sentence. Only something like anger management and that's it. He would only get angrier and come back and kill her(literally). Also there were slight feelings of remorse because of the baby. The court order wound up being that they would have joint custody of the child which consisted of the child being with the mother Mon-Thur and the father fri-sun. There was a restraining order against him which hasn't really done much. The ex-boyfriend backed up for a brief while, but would continue harassing her with phone calls. When she would bring the baby to the ex-boyfriend's mother's house, he would sometimes be there and harrass her more.

Past couple of weeks and months, the ex-boyfriend no longer sees the baby on the days he is supposed to, and doesn't give the mother any financial help. After the first police reported insident I explained before in which he almost killed her, my friend got involved with another guy who has helped her out and gave her emotional support through her tough times. They have been "secretely" together so to speak for about 5 months now and they believe to be in love. Secretly only to the babie's father's knowledge because she is afraid he will do something very serious to her and the new boyfriend since he has threatened her multiple times. She says she knows he is capable of fulfilling his threats from experience of being with him in the past. A couple of days ago he unexpectedly came to her home supposedly to see the daughter. The new boyfriend happened to call her while he was there and the ex-boyfriend went crazy. He threatened his life and even hers. He's not backing off and hasn't been leaving her alone for about 3-4 days now. Im not exactly sure as far as the restraining order if it is still standing or not, I don't believe so. Anyway he currently pretty much has her kidnapped. He is forcing her to be with him and monitoring every single phone call. He has forced her to call the new boyfriend on speakerphone while he listens, and tell him off pretty much. I know this because we spoke to her once on a moment that she said he wasn't there and she was in the bathroom able to make that phone call. She won't call the police and possibly may not admit what is really going on because she fears he will get the boyfriend and maybe even her killed.

She and the new boyfriend, however, have spoken in the past about "running away" to another state perhaps. Or maybe even get married and he would join the military. She would come with him as his wife and bring the baby along. Here is where the question comes in. Does the fact that the ex-boyfriend has joint custody of the child prevent her from taking the baby out of the state? She is in New York City. She isn't trying to go through court and battle for full custody because it is too much time and the ex-boyfriend will know what's going on and do something crazy. She basically wants to run away for good and possibly be with her new boyfriend in the military. If she were to do this, the ex-boyfriend would eventually know she is gone and use the excuse that he has the legal right to see the baby and call the police on her or something. What would happen then? Another question I have is that in order to take a baby out of the state, I believe the father has to give written consent correct? He obviously will never do that though. Is this something that maybe she can forge this document permitting the daughter to leave?

ScottGem · Mar 14, 2008, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by waterflowx

The court order wound up being that they would have joint custody of the child which consisted of the child being with the mother Mon-Thur and the father fri-sun.

Does the fact that the ex-boyfriend has joint custody of the child prevent her from taking the baby out of the state?

The real key here is that he has court ordered visitation rights. As long as he has them, whether he exercizes them or not, then she can't legally take the baby away.

I would advise her to seek help from an abused woman's shelter. There may be things she can do to get away from this abuser without running afoul of the law.

waterflowx · Mar 14, 2008, 10:16 AM

What would happen if she leaves anyway? What would "running afoul of the law" exactly signify? What would be the penalty? She is willing to never come back to New York. Is that an option? Like if you get a driving ticket in another state, you'll have to pay for it or go to court. If you don't do either then there will be a warrant for your arrest in that state, but if you never go back to that state there wouldn't be any problem. Would that scennario be the same for this?

squeaks77 · Mar 14, 2008, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by waterflowx

Does the fact that the ex-boyfriend has joint custody of the child prevent her from taking the baby out of the state?

You sure the father doesn't know about the affair? That may be why he's so angry and he should be!

Taking a child out of state without permission from a joint custody is kidnapping and if she gets caught the courts may just take the child away from her.

And don't let her forget if she runs away with her cheating buddy, if he really is in the military HE can get in a bunch of trouble! The military owns him and their laws are different. Military people can be court marshalled for committing adultery (for example of their strict laws).

stinawords · Mar 14, 2008, 10:24 AM

Well if she decides to ignore other advice given such as scott saying to find a battered women's shelter (which is what I would also recomend) and she leaves anyway, she can have the child taken out of her custody all together and possibly face jail time as well. Those are the cases the federal government get involved with so that the warrant will reach anywhere in the country not just New York. It's much MUCH more serious than a speeding ticket!

ScottGem · Mar 14, 2008, 10:27 AM

No, it would not be the same. She would be defying a court order and could be brought up on kidnapping charges. This could result in losing the child completely and even jail time. Does she really want to risk that without exploring all the other alternatives first??

If you are a good friend do you really feel comfortable advising her to do something that could get her jailed??

waterflowx · Mar 14, 2008, 10:28 AM

Yes he does somewhat know about the "affair" and yes that is mainly why he is angry, but they are not married. And she no longer wants to be with him so I'm not sure affair is the right word to use. Thanks anyway for the responses, they're very helpful.

cdad · Mar 14, 2008, 01:28 PM

Your friend needs to dump the new boyfriend and get to a women's shelter right away with her child. Another thing is from what your saying if she really does have a restraining order they don't usually end in such a short period. There is a lot more your friend can be doing proactivly to help herself and her baby. As far as just taking the child the others have already said what may happen and its good advice. If he's not paying anything for the child then she needs to take that back to court or to the local child support division in her area. Your friend needs to stop being lazy and expecting others to save her and be proactive in her own life. None of this works without follow through. And if the boyfriend helps take the baby out of state and kidnapping charges come from it he may well go to prison. Get her to a shelter and get some legal help.

peggyhill · Mar 14, 2008, 01:48 PM

She need to go to a shelter for abused women. There are social workers there who can help her and give her advice about what she needs to do as far as custody/new boyfriend. Otherwise, she could end up in legal trouble. There are people who will help her with this, but she has to take the step of leaving and telling authorities about this man's abuse. If he has made suicidal and homicidal threats, the police need to be told. There are places she can go to stay safe while this is going on. She also needs to report that he is not providing any financial support or picking up the child when he is supposed to. I hope everything works out.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 14, 2008, 05:41 PM

I see so many things, why she is having any contact, require father to see child though 3rd party, keep the restraining order in place.

*** he forced her to make a speakerphone call, how, did she call and report her being attacked and forced to the police.

In these cases, often the women leaves with the child to a battered women shelter, But most men who beat women, will bother the women, and talk trash to the other man, but they are normally scared to death of the other man,