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    penguin1964's Avatar
    penguin1964 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jan 31, 2006, 07:48 PM
    Who has the legal rights to parents ashes?
    I have a question requarding my fathers ashes. In 1999 my father passed away, At the time of his death he was not married. He had a live in girl friend of 12 years. I don't know if Philadelphia is a common law state or not. My dad had three daughters. Two from his first marriage and one from his second. For one we were not informed of his death until after he had been cremated. We all knew this was his choice but given the circumstances of his death we as his children would have requested an autopsie (sp). On his death certificate by the way, it listed his girlfriend as his wife. They were never married. We children went to Philly 2 months after he passed to have a so called mamorial service. When we started asking questions we hit brick walls. All 3 of us were approached at the age of 18 with his will, told to read it and asked if we agreed. We were told "when I pass call my lawyer" Well we did. No so called will. We all realize my Dad was a middle income worker. Had a home, vehicle and a little travel trailer in the mountains. If I pull up the tax assessor for Philly it shows that about a year after my fathers death his house was sold to her for a $1.00. That one I could'nt figure out. Anyway, back to the main question. His girlfriend has his ashes. We all knew dad wanted his ashes "thrown in the trash" those were his words. He didn't want to be sitting around on someone's coffee table collecting dust. We want his ashes to take them and put them in the mountains where we know he would want to be. We would love to have them now but she basically has no contact with us anymore. In the event of her death. Who will receive my fathers ashes? I have 2 cousins that she still speaks to up in Philly with her. I know she would want them to have them, but by law, who should receive them? I know I kind of got off the track but any response would be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
    CaptainForest's Avatar
    CaptainForest Posts: 3,645, Reputation: 393
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    #2

    Feb 1, 2006, 12:43 AM
    I would suggest you consult your attorney.

    Not only on the ashes, but on the house and the rest of the stuff.

    Honestly, what I would do in this situation. I would go over to her house, try to be friendly. Once I located my father's ashes I would snatch them up and run like hell. At least you then have possession of them instead of her. Because frankly, it sounds like you should have them. I know stealing is wrong, but if the ashes are suppose to be your property, then you have every legal right to take them. At the very lease, on a moral level, you are taking the ashes to honour your father's wishes. That is, not allowing them to sit on some mantel.
    leximom's Avatar
    leximom Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Dec 17, 2011, 01:40 PM
    This is an old thread but still it's worth an answer.
    1) usually it's the real, blood relatives or legally adopted, or by marriage who are closest related, that are top of the list for authority on making decisions about final disposition of the body. But every state has their own laws about this. Look them up, many states' laws and statutes are online. A live-in girlfriend who is not legally related is not on that list usually. Certainly children would most likely take precedence over her. And did he show you a will at age 18? If no other was made, then that will would probably be the legal will and not some other fake claim. Ok now it looks also like there could be some fraudulent activity on the part of the girlfriend as she may have faked a signature on a document to transfer title of the house to herself after his death. How could he have sold anything to her a year after his own death? She is probably just trying to cover her a** since she realized she had no rights and wanted to keep the place. So have the signatures analyzed by taking a court action to get it etc. Or it may be a police investigation needed. Talk to the police and explain about the house sale, unlawful disposal of the body, etc. She also lied to the crematory about herself being his wife. ETC. this bears some legal work and also maybe police work especially if you don't have money to waste on attorneys fees. But make her be the responsible party for all legal fees.
    dadsgirl1st's Avatar
    dadsgirl1st Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Mar 25, 2012, 09:22 PM
    If they were never married then the children have the sole rights to everything. I am speaking from first hand experience but I also am going by the laws of our state which is, California. I cant't imagine the laws verying much for other states as this just makes the most sense. My father died in May 2011 of terminal cancer. He and my step-mom married soon after he was told of his condition. Although he and her had a 25 year common law relationship the fact that he died 6 months after they finally got married (her idea for the SSI she wanted) still was not enough to uphold legally for her to automatically be eligible for any rights to his property, social security or anything to do with his affairs he left behind. He had no will and they needed to be married for at least 8 months to 1 year in order for her to be entitled. His children took priority over her in every aspect and I think it was certainly the best way because my brother and I had my fathers best interest in mind as well as those he left behind. We handled it properly and with dignity towards each other. He and I never fought over his money the way so many families do in this situation and we did not allow our step mothers remarks to influence us like she had hoped they would. I thank my brother for working together with me instead of letting greed or jealousy tear us apart. I know he feels the same way about me. That meant more to me than anything we stood to inherit form my fathers death.
    As his daughters you are the beneficiaries NOT his live in girlfriend! Please find out what the laws are in your state. I find it strange that this woman somehow has ownership of his estate without there being a will specifically stating so. Good luck and don't give up no matter how long or hard it becomes. You are the children and you have the power over her unless he put it in a will the says otherwise.
    kcomissiong's Avatar
    kcomissiong Posts: 1,166, Reputation: 276
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    #5

    Mar 26, 2012, 08:18 AM
    I agree that this is worth an answer even if the thread is old. PA law on intestate succession is as follows (When there is no surviving spouse):

    1. Children. First, to the children of the decedent.
    2. Parents. If no children survive the decedent, the decedent's parents share the estate equally; if only one parent survives, the surviving parent takes the entire estate. Recall that, if the decedent was survived by a spouse, the spouse will take the first $30,000.00 and one-half of the remaining estate. So, in the event there is a surviving parent of the decedent, the surviving spouse will get $30,000.00 plus half the remaining estate and the surviving parent will receive the other one-half of the remaining estate. If both parents survive the decedent, they will share the remaining one-half.
    3. Brother, Sister, or their Children. If no children and no parents survive the decedent, then the estate will be distributed to the children of the decedent's parents (the decedent's siblings and their children).
    4. Grandparents. If no siblings survive the decedent, then the grandparents of the decedent shall receive, one-half to the paternal grandparents and one-half to the maternal grandparents, and their children.
    5. Uncles, Aunts, and their Children and Grandchildren. If no grandparents survive the decedent, the estate is distributed to the decedent's uncles, aunts, and their children and grandchildren.
    6. Commonwealth. If no one mentioned above survives the decedent, then the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania collects.
    If there was a will, it should have been probated, and you will be able to see how the estate was distributed by contacting a probate office. If your father died without a will, you and your siblings inherit 100%, so fraud occurred if the girlfriend got anything without a will. (Barring property or assets that they jointly owned, those are flat out hers)

    Generally speaking in PA, you and your siblings would have had the right to have the ashes after the cremation. However PA does have a designated agent law, which allows the decedent to supersede the next of kin and choose another person to handle the disposition of the body.

    Your first meeting should be with probate to find out if the estate was actually probated and if there was a will. Knowing what actually happened and how the estate was distributed will determine your next step.
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #6

    Mar 26, 2012, 11:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by penguin1964 View Post
    ... I don't know if Philadelphia is a common law state or not. ...
    Phidadephiia is not a state, common-law or otherwise. And Pennsylvania doesn't recognize common law marriages. Common-law marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I see no point in further comment with respect to this old thread.

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