[phreshout]

I have TWO new porcelin toilets/same brand and type, in a new house. They have a www.briggsplumbing.com stamp inside the tank & PRO FLOW-V and PF3112 stamped inside. They are the short round bowl, 1.6gpf, made 11/05. Now, one of them flushes fine & fills up quick. The other takes forever to drain. It does not refill in the bowl where it should. I have noticed the flapper valve falls onto the valve seat way too early, leaving about 1.5" of water in the tank that should have gone into the bowl. I can make it properly fill the bowl by continuing to hold the flush lever down until the bowl has emptied. When I release the lever, the bowl & tank then fill to their proper levels. Since the new house was under warranty, a plumber came out. He fiddled with the float ball adjustment. When that did no good (duh), he said that the toilet was the closest to the main water inlet valve & it was probably a water pressure thing--unfixable. The Briggs website was of no help to me. I replaced the flapper valve, & it had no effect. The flapper hinge points are as close to the bottom as possible. Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to fix this problem, besides telling everyone to just stand there holding the lever down till the bowl empties? Oh, the humility, since this is a new house. :eek:

[hkstroud]

When you push the flush leaver, how far does it pull the flapper up? The flapper has air trapped in the bulb underneath. When pulled it up that air makes it float until the water is drained away. That is assuming that your flush is a true flapper type flush valve. If it is the type with a tube about 1" in diameter and about 2" long, then when you push the leaver the chain pulls the valve up and the water in the tube holds it open until it drains out the small hole in the end of the tube. Sounds like you just need to adjust the chain on the flapper. Reach in and lift the flapper with you hand, pulling it all the way up, and see if it stays open until the tank empties.

closest to the main water inlet valve & it was probably a water pressure thing--unfixable

The plumbers on this site probably take offense to this person being called a plumber.

[speedball1]

A plumber came out. He fiddled with the float ball adjustment. When that did no good (duh), he said that the toilet was the closest to the main water inlet valve & it was probably a water pressure thing--unfixable

TWENTY LASHES WITH A WET NOODLE to the incompetent plumber that fed you that line of horse hockey. First lets adjust the flapper. Sounds like your flapper linkage needs adjusting.
With the flapper seated the linkage wants to have 1/4" of play. Too much play and the flapper doesn't get pulled back enough giving you a short flush. Too tight and it lets water seep past the flapper. I adjust the chain by the link and if it needs fine tuning, I bend the flush lever rod a bit untill I have the desired play in the linkage. One more thing about a flapper. you will see where the old flapper hooks onto the base of the white overflow tube. On a older type with no hooks the flapper has a ring that slips down over the overflow tube to the seat. If your tank has hooks, take a sharp knife or scissors and cut the neoprene ring off on the marks provided and hook the flapper on the hooks. Leaving the ring on will interfere with the flush. The water level in your tank should be 3/8 to 1/2" below the top of the overflow tube when the tank's filled and the little tube wants to run from the ballcock and connect to the white overflow tube. Let us know Tom

[phreshout]

Thanks Stroud & Speedball for your replies. I already have 1/4" or so play in flapper chain. It lifts the flapper all the way up & seals ok after it drops onto the valve seat. I had previously removed the neoprene ring from the new Fluidmaster flapper & installed the flapper on the old tube hooks. The tube is about 6" tall. I removed the flapper & inspected it--hole in bottom to let air in + tiny vent hole on side, put there on purpose (why?) Previous flapper had no holes at all, but still did same thing. When I disconnect the flapper from the flush lever & lift by hand, the flapper still falls too soon, preventing a lot of water from leaving the tank. This is the same action I got on the original flapper. Result remains slow/incomplete flush & refill just barely to cover the floor of the bowl (3" diameter "puddle".) Any additional comments?

[massplumber2008]

Hey, phreshout... wondering if there is a foam float on the chain of the flapper? If there is then remove the flat plastic clips and set one at lowest point on chain... push foam float down to 1st clip and then add other flat clip on top of that. That will increase the "HANG" time on that flapper.

If foam float not present then I got to punt and suggest that maybe you need to try another flapper or two... cheap enough... just buy a couple universal types... MOST COME WITH FOAM FLOATS on their chains today... see what happens from there.

Also, how is the water filling into tank compared to the other toilet?? Does your toilet fill valve have a tube that goes into the overflow tube??

More... what is different from this toilet to the other toilet. You said other is working.. but they are the same toilets.. yes?

Also, look at the overflow tube..compare to other toilet...I am wondering if this overflow tube got cut too short by someone at some point...six inches tall sounds short...but that is just a thought. The overflow tube should be cut shorter than the hole for the handle in the toilet tank (so will overflow into tube before overflows toilet handle hole) BUT not so short you do not have the proper volume of water to allow HANG time for your flapper.

Let me know what you see/think. If this helped, please RATE THIS ANSWER.. Thank you.

[phreshout]

Thanks, Massplumber. I've not seen any flapper valves that sell with the little chain floats, but then I haven't looked other than Ace Hardware & Lowe's. The overflow tubes in both toilets are equally about 6.75". I switched flappers with the normally working toilet. The normally working toilet still worked fine, so I'm thinking its not the flapper. I just noticed that BOTH tanks empy to the same level, though the normal toilet flapper hangs longer--even using the switched flapper. Both toilets have the old school basic fill valve that has the plastic float ball on a rod that runs to a diaphragm-type valve. They each have a small plastic tube that leads from the diaphragm housing to the overflow tube. Now, I have noticed a stronger flow from that little tube into the overflow tube on the normal toilet. The toilet in question has its little tube not discharging as much + it sputters, like mixing with air. Not sure if this is significant, but might keep the bowl from filling up? I guess I can spend the rest of my life with this thing, or go buy a new fill valve, of different design (?) What do you think?

[hkstroud]

Ok, is this something new? Don't know anything about there being any "tiny vent hole". Do we have another "mystery problem" here?
Please take the flapper out of the other toilet and put in this one and let us know what happens.

[phreshout]

hkstroud, please see phreshout post #6 above. The "holey" flapper works fine on the normal toilet...

[hkstroud]

Sorry, don't know how I missed his post.

The little tube is what fills the bowl after flush. If it lacks volume that would be the reason bowl not refilling to proper level. Appearantly I misunderstood, thought flush was not lasting long enough for tank to empty. Remove tube from ballcock (your type of fill valve) and see if tube clogged. If water out of ball cock with tube removed does not improve, you have defective washer in ballcock or partial blockage. The tank does refill to the proper level doesn't it?

[massplumber2008]

Phreshout... check out HK's advice first... if that does nothing then time to change that defective fill valve! Go to Lowe's and pickup a fluidmaster fill valve... the 400A is popular in my area.. looks like the valve on left in pic (borrowed from Speedball1... thank you!).

Also get a new flexible connector for your toilet. I am betting a 3/8" compression x toilet supply x 12" long toilet riser will do the job... probably best to bring old toilet riser with you just in case I am wrong about sizes.

Low water out the refill tube can make big difference.


Get back to us.. this is a 20 minute job once have the part :)

[phreshout]

hkstroud & massplumber,
I checked the ballcock fill tube & it is clear. I compared discharge from ballcock with tube removed, between normal toilet & the one in question. There is a weaker stream (sounds familiar) with the ballcock in question. Just for fun, I will dissassemble the ballcock & see if there's any debris in it (recall, this is a new house.) Then, I will go pick up a Fluidmaster like massplumber describes. I have installed one like that before in my old house with really hard water, but had only fair luck with it. I then tried one of those black & yellow Korcy's (sp) which was a lot quieter, but less quality to me. Will get back to you.

[phreshout]

hkstroud & massplumber,
The tube from the ballcock is clear. I compared the flow rate without the tube installed, between the normal ballcock & the one in question. The one in question had a weaker stream (sounds familiar!) Just for fun, I will take the top of the ballcock off & look for debris. Then I will pick up a Fluidmaster. Stay tuned.

[massplumber2008]

Thanks... and do not forget to check for flappers with a foam float attached... and also that they can be adjusted. Good luck

[speedball1]

Then I will pick up a Fluidmaster.

I too think the problem will be found in the ballcock. However a word of warning. FluidMasters have a small neoprene washer with a tiny hole in the middle. This hole, when opened, allows water to enter the tank. In my area,(Tampa Bay) our water will swell the hole shut over time making the tank fill last forever. While this is a simple job to replace the washer once it swells shut you won't have that hassle with a regular float ball ballcock. Just a word of caution. Regards, tom

[phreshout]

So I pulled the top of the ballcock off, & staring me right in the face was a huge (1/4" x 1/8") chunk of plastic debris, right on the center washer seal!

It now flushes better, fills faster, & to about the same bowl level as the normal toilet. There is a tiny cut in the center washer from the debris, but I don't see any leakage or other problem yet. I can probably get a replacement part, or have a new flush valve as a spare. It amazes me that such a little thing can upset the entire flush balance. It sure makes me appreciate the mechanics of this contraption.

It still takes longer than the other normal toilet, for the tank to fill/shut off & the float action is still a little jerky, but I can live with that, especially since it works 100% better. After more than a year of living with this annoying problem, I am now one with my toilets, & ready to flush or repair, with equal confidence!

Many thanks to hkstroud, speedball 1, & massplumber2008. I am very impressed with how quick you guys can pick up on a problem, especially given the hit-and-miss descriptions given by us victims in distress.

Keep up the good work!