[massplumber2008]

Hi QL... hey, congrats... getting there! Now just remove the strainer... me and hk gave some good ideas to get it out. Let us know how it goes.

[KISS]

I agree with hkstroud, that it appears that that ductwork has to come out, but it looks like the water heater is in the way.

Being very tricky here, you COULD drill a small hole from the basement into the pipe between the nut and the fernco (rubber coupling). Then clean out the best you can the drain. Mark it on the inside and cut it with a Dremel tool. (This step may not be necessary)

The attachment is basically a saw at the end of a mandrel.

You can cut the nut downstairs with a Dremel as well.

If you don't have access to the screws on the Fernco, you can cut the clamp with a Dremel as well. You may be able to use a clamp from a new Ferco and then use an offset screwdriver to tighten it.

Re-thinking.

1) Cut upper clamp on fernco (Dremel)
2) Cut Nut on drain (Dremel)
3) Try to remove drain
4) If unsuccessful, cut drain pipe from inside. (Dremel)
etc.


Installation is going to be tricky in any event.

[quicklearner]

Work done last night!

Ok... took a screwdriver and went around the lip of the drain, in between it and the shower pan. I sawed directly above the screwdriver to make sure I didn't go too deep and hit the shower floor. Went around abd made about 5 or 6 different cuts and was able to drop the thing down through the shower floor.

What I DON'T understand is this setup. It looks like it's just one piece! I thought this was supposed to be like a screw and a nut. That's why it was leaking at where I drew the arrow (in a previous pic I posted), because the thing was just moving back and forth in the shower floor hole. Whatever putty that was there was brittle and dry and basically non existent.

Next steps? I guess I don't need the fancy wingtite thing now...

[hkstroud]

Wondered what happen to you QL. Looks like you need to vacumn out that trap real well. Don't won't to have to start all over because of a blocked trap.

Will that trap move up or down or left or right any? Can we move it any to get fittings in place?

Wait for MP, maybe he can tell us how a Wedge-Loc shower flange works. I am not familiar with them. If they work the way I think, you may be able to remove the Fernco, replace it with a coupling, then stick a piece of pipe in the coupling from the top side, cut off the pipe and then install the Wedge-Loc.

[massplumber2008]

Hi QL and HK... nice job QL... now clean out drain like HK suggested and if you want can remove the fernco coupling too.

The wedge-lok drains I have seen are usually reserved for molded shower floors with drains built right in so just need to place rubber donut over drain pipe and install.

But I think I know what kind of drain you guys are talking about... see pic. Below... anyway... Here, you should have a shower strainer that installs in two pieces... the under side nut and the top side assembly. You will need to have the rubber washer and the fiber or cardboard washer downstairs (rubber against shower pan) with the shower nut... and the threaded strainer assembly upstairs with silicone on it (silicone just lasts so much longer and allows for flexibility better than putty). Then with 1 person holding siliconed strainer upstairs in place, person downstairs threads the nut onto strainer... easy so far. Tighten this as best you can by hand (could purchase a slipnut wrench at home supply to tighten better if you wanted)... but will be fine if used silicone (clean excess silicone off strainer upstairs at this time).

Then place the rubber donut in strainer and measure from the donut top to the pipe (with fernco or PVC coupling in place).. then add 1/4" to measure. If using PVC coupling cut the pipe... remove donut... prime/cement the pipe in place (someone holds against you downstairs) and then install the rubber donut... if you find this hard a little soap around donut will help to push it all the way in. I have even had to use dull tipped tools to push down onto drain. If that is all that came with strainer then simply click the strainer top on and good to go... BUT

I am going to assume that you have a top brass nut that goes over the pipe and threads into drain... over pipe and rubber... to compress that rubber and improve seal around pipe with a small tool they supplied with drain (metal with rectangle hole in it). You would plug the drain pipe if you use this tool as so many drop this in drain pipe. Tighten a bit with pliers and then should be good to go for a long time.

Let me know if I am describing the right drain.. ok? Hope that is all you needed... as always keep us posted! Good job bud!

[Knucklez]

Wow, great discussion & pics.

Makes this website so great :)

[massplumber2008]

Hey knucklez... did you see our posts at your thread?? We need to talk ;)

[quicklearner]

You've got the drain described down to a "t". I'll post a pic in a second. The nut was so caked on and dried up (the previous "fix" had about 5 inches, no kidding, of caulk all around the whole bottom of the shower pan. This worked for about 3 months after moving in, and then the drip drip drip POUR. The first plumber that I had in removed all of it. Guess they wanted to make sure the house sold, eh?)

I think the only difference from your description is that everything is plastic. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but this was pre-installed when I got the house. So I need to the store and make sure the replacement drain has these specific parts so there can be the right match?

As far as the silicone there was nothing, nada, zilch of putty or anything between the shower drain lip and the floor of the shower. In hindsight I could have gotten one of those extension-type wrenches, busted a gut trying to loosen that nut, and put some silicone in there. That would have fixed it. But we're talking about a real extension wrench here... I had to strain and use the hack saw blade to try to catch the drain so it would fall on my side and not go down behind the wall.

(EDIT: Just went to some online home depot/lowes places and didn't see any shower drains... need to go to a plumbing supply place?)

[massplumber2008]

Great pic QL. If my picture of parts is right except that your stuff is plastic... as you suspected, just follow instructions exact!

Keep us posted as you go... doing a great job QL! And you know what... HKstroud...if you are not a plumber... you should be!!

Good night!

[hkstroud]

Sorry Wife took computer but I'm back.


Ok, QL it looks like that type of shower flange will solve a couple of problems for us. You are probably going to have to get it from a plumbing supply though. Print pic and take with you. Probably have both plastic and brass versions. Doubt that it matters which one. Suggest removing Fernco. That will give you a little more room to work and will eliminate the need to tighten clamps when we are done. The only disadvantage will be if you ever have to do this again you will be hard piped and will have to move back beyond the trap to do anything.

It will be you call as to weather or not you think you can get you hand up under and in between the joist to tighten the nut and weather you have enough swing room to turn the nut with a wrench. I wouldn't be very confidant of hand tight.

I'll be back shortly with my tool manufacturing idea.

Me plumber, no way, they have to work too hard.

[massplumber2008]

Tell me about it ;) I like that creativity HK.

[hkstroud]

Using ½” or ¾”scrap plywood,
Lay the nut on the ply wood trace around the outside of the nut.
Find the center of your drawing, by drawing lines from corner to corner.
Using a compass draw a circle around the outside image about 2” larger than the nut image. In other words you should have about ¾” to 1” of wood left after you cut this out.
Drill hole in center and cut out the center making the inside slightly larger than the drawing.
Cut away the excess around the outer ring.
You should now have something that looks like the first image.

Draw 3 or four more circles before changing you compass. Change you compass to a to radius slightly greater than the inside diameter of the nut drawing.
Draw another circle inside each of the larger circles.
Cut these out. Do not cut out the inside of one of these circles.
You should have something that looks like image two.
How many of these you need will depend on how thick the plywood is and how long the threaded part of the flange is. They are spacers between the nut plate and the bottom of the flange threads

Drill a 3/8 hole in the circle that you did not cut out the center.

You should have image three.

Put a 3/8' by 1 or 1 ½' bolt through the bottom disk with a washer on each side. Tighten nut as tight as you can. It's got to be really tight. You could put super glue between the bolt head and the washer and between the washers and the wood if you like.
Put the second nut on the bolt. Holding the first nut tighten the second nut very tight. This will keep the bolt from unscrewing.

Now stack these up with the nut shaped plate on top and bolt plate on the bottom. Bolt head inside the assembly.

Using regular wood glue, glue your assembly togeather. Put a good film of glue on one side of two pieces and put together.. Either clamp together tightly or put in vise if you have one. No clamps or vise, tack together with small nails. Nails will act as clamps until glue dries. Repeat to add next part.

You should now have a wooden socket with a bolt head on the inside that you can get to with a socket and ratchet with an extension on from the topside of the drain to tighten the drain nut.

Before assembling, check that the nut driving plate fits on the nut easily but firmly.

After getting the drain assembly in place and the nut run up by hand, you need someone to put your wooden socket on the bottom of the drain and hold it in place while you tighten it with the socket, extension and ratchet from the top.

[KISS]

If the nut slips, you might be able to use a hole saw arbor. Porter-Cable 18666 Hole Saw Arbor - PlumberSurplus.com

Drill the hole for the center and the hole for the two tabs.

Remove the drill bit. Get a 1/4" flat rivet. It looks like a nail.

These things. Copper Round Rivets

You can buy them in single quantity at the hardware store.

Cut it to the proper length and attach the rivet with the set screw that was used to secure the original drill bit. Use a fender washer under the rivet head.

Now you will have a drive system that won't slip.

In all likeliness, you won't need it.

I can't find mine, otherwise, use a bolt the same size as an arbor so you have a fall back position.

[hkstroud]

Now that a good idea KISS, wish I'd thought of that.
Could probably just use a "T" if you could find one that bit.

[KISS]

Sometimes you need a right hand. BTW, I can write script left handed, right handed, left handed mirror image and right-handed mirror image.

[hkstroud]

Yea, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. :D

[KISS]

I found my hole saw, but I have the mandrel for the smaller sizes, not the fancy mandrel.

From a large hole saw, the clearance hole needed would be 9/16".
You would also need two 1/4" holes 1" apart on center.

So, you can use any bolt less than 9/16" for your initial try.

The shaft is hex, but I forgot to measure it.

[hkstroud]

We'll keep this as a back up. I don't QL going to have a hole saw mandrel. May have to buy though.
Just checked mine. 11/32 fits shank but not much material between center hole and pin holes.

[KISS]

Lowe's has the mandrel:

3/8" Arbor (Mandrel) 6L

[hkstroud]

Might work. Wonder if 3/8 T nuts be hard to find. Just bought some 5/16