[aural]

Hi everyone,
Thanks in advance for anyone's help with this.
I just moved into a second floor condo and was recently informed of a plumbing leak that's causing damage to the ceiling of the condo below me. The condo owner and I ran all the faucets in my place and we discovered that it must be the shower because that's when he hears "dripping" around the area of his damaged ceiling.
My shower knob is also extremely hypersensitive when adjusting water temperature. He informed me that he'd had the same issue and he had a plumber come out and replace the knob cartridge.
We don't know whether the leak problem is related to the sensitive knob problem... but my guess is that it is. So, Ive decided to see if I can replace the cartridge myself (he paid the plumber over a hundred bucks to replace his!). Looking at his receipt, it shows that his knob was replaced with:
part #: 23402 description: Moen Cartridge price: $27.00

Here are pictures of my current knob. It is a single knob, just one for hot and cold.



I appreciate the help/advice, thank you very much.
Emily

*Edit*
More information:
We don't hear "dripping" when running the tub... just the shower.
Also, we noticed that my shower head pulls away from the wall very easily.

[massplumber2008]

First thing I would do aural is to unscrew the handle and the face plate. There should be a screw on the handle and two screws on the face plate... No need to be concerned about anything else right now... pull these off and then with a flashlight look behind the plate while running the shower.. Do you see a leak.. If so... cool... should be obvious from there... replace cartridge, etc. BUT IF NOT then look at the tub spout... seeing how the diverter is on the tub spout... when the shower is activated via diverter on tub spout... could be leaking from the tub spout and leaking back into wall... look for this also... major point is to really look around. Hopefully this will help.

Let me know if you need anything else. If my answer helped please RATE MY ANSWER by clicking the RATE THIS ANSWER! Button below. Thank you!

[ballengerb1]

MASS is correct, you need to do a bit of detective work before swapping out the cartridge. If it isn't leaking 24/7 you can skip inspecting the two side inlet, hot to the left and cold on the irght. I would pay very, very close attention to the pipe coming out of the top of the valve. That pipe supplies only the shower. It is more likely to leak at the valve but it may also leak at the top where it is threaded into a 90 degree drop ear elbow. Either location is slkightly less than fun to fix but you can do it.

[aural]

How awesome of you both to help. I appreciate it so much.
I want to do as massplumber2008 says, unscrew the knob and faceplate... but I cannot seem to locate where to turn the shower/tub water off! Ive turned off the sink water and the kitchen water successfully and Ive walked around my building twice and I still can't find where my shower water is coming from.
Can I do this without the water off?
Again, many thanks to both of you for your help.

[PalmMP3]

You remove the knob and faceplate first, with the water supply still turned on. Once the faceplate is off, look into the newly exposed gaping hole in the wall. You should see the cartrdige housing in the middle, with pipes branching off on all sides. The two pipes branching off the right and left are the incoming cold and hot water supplies, respectively; right where they meet the cartrdige housing, each one should have a tiny valve built into it. It's not a knob you can turn with your hand; it looks like a little screw requiring a flat-head screwdriver. Turn each "screw" 90 degrees, and that turns the water off.

If you need to remove the cartridge, that is how you turn off the water. But for a basic inspection of the area, just to see what is leaking, you don't even need to turn off the water - the knob and faceplate can be safely removed with the water supply still on.

Hope this helps,
Moishe

[aural]

Thank you everyone!
After removing the faceplate, we ran the shower, and immediately spotted where the drips were coming from. With the shower on, the bottom part of the tub spout (not sure if that's what its called) becomes wet and it begins to drip. Ive drawn in blue where this happens.


Thank you PalmMP3, I was able to find the two water supplies that you mentioned (pictured below). Im guessing Im going to need a special tool to turn them off, correct?


Any tips on how to figure out the replacement cartridge that I might need?
And do you guys think that replacing the cartridge will help?
Thanks so much for you're kindness and support, guys. Its really awesome.
-Emily

[PalmMP3]

No offense, but the pictures aren't too clear, so I can't tell you anything for sure.

All you should need to turn those valves off is a flat-headed screwdriver.

As for which cartridge it is, what I would do is take the whole thing out and take it to a plumbing supply store and ask for the same one.

I don't know if it's necessary to change the cartrdige, though. Let me get this straight: it leaks out the front of the cartridge, and only when it's on "shower mode", not "bath mode"?

Moishe

[aural]

Hi and thanks Moishe,
Well I spoke too soon. I just tested again and sure enough, were getting drips when the shower runs and when the tub runs also.
I took a pic of it with the outside metal casing off and then another pic with it on.

[iamgrowler]

This a Moen Château valve, and from the looks of things, a fairly old one.

The drip location would indicate it is leaking at the cartridge.

Turn the stops off (clockwise) with a wide flat blade screwdriver, use a pair of needlenose pliers to remove the brass clip and then pull the cartridge straight out with a pair of channel locks.

When you're out buying the new cartridge, pick up a fitting brush for cleaning 3/4" copper fittings and a small container of silicone Plumbers Grease.

Use the fitting brush to clean the bore of the valve, then turn on one of the stops to flush out the debris you cleaned from the bore of the valve.

Coat the cartridge with the silicone grease, install it and the clip you removed.

If you discover that the hot is on the wrong side after the installation, just rotate the center portion of the cartridge 180 degrees and reinstall the handle.

Check for leaks at the upper and lower outlets, but I suspect they will be fine.

[massplumber2008]

Wow... I mean that is what I really like about this place. Great team effort everyone!

[ballengerb1]

Growlers identication is better thanmine, I just knew it was Moen. The letters HC are stamped on the rectangular bar just beyond the stem, they belong at the top if your hot is on the left and cold on the right. That Moen has seen a lot of water in its day.

[aural]

I reckon it has seen a lot of water in its day... and so have the two stubborn valves!
I just picked up the silicon, the wire brush, and the really expensive moen cartridge puller, I dug around and found my channel locks and then I tried to turn the water off... Im embarrassed that Im stuck on this part... I can't seem to get those water valves to budge (clockwise) at all. I tried cleaning them with the brush but no luck there either. Bummer. I want to scream!

[aural]

This a Moen Chateau valve, and from the looks of things, a fairly old one.

The drip location would indicate it is leaking at the cartridge.

Turn the stops off (clockwise) with a wide flat blade screwdriver, use a pair of needlenose pliers to remove the brass clip and then pull the cartridge straight out with a pair of channel locks.

When you're out buying the new cartridge, pick up a fitting brush for cleaning 3/4" copper fittings and a small container of silicone Plumbers Grease.

Use the fitting brush to clean the bore of the valve, then turn on one of the stops to flush out the debris you cleaned from the bore of the valve.

Coat the cartridge with the silicone grease, install it and the clip you removed.

If you discover that the hot is on the wrong side after the installation, just rotate the center portion of the cartridge 180 degrees and reinstall the handle.

Check for leaks at the upper and lower outlets, but I suspect they will be fine.

Man, I wish I weren't having such a hard time turning the water off... cause I picked up all the stuff and Im ready to pull the sucker out! But sheesh... those valves are just impossible... and Im not a weak chick either! :o

[iamgrowler]

Does your Condo have its own water shut off?

Whoa!!

Just looked at your latest photo -- If the water isn't off yet, then put that brass clip back in, cause that is the only thing holding the cartridge in.

Yikes!!

[doug238]

Definitely put the horseshoe clip back in until the water is off. If the integral stops do not turn with the large flatblade screwdriver they may break. I use a screwdriver and my channel locks to turn the screwdriver, but very slowly. Are you going righty tighty?
When you finally get the water off and are using the cartridge puller, turn the cartridge puller from 12 oclock to 1 oclock and then to 11 oclock. Do not go past that. You may exercise it a bit back and forth but not past those limits. When you pull, or tighten the nut on the cartridge puller, be careful. You will be using a channel lock or wrench on that nut and the clip inside the cartridge may break and the whole cartridge may not come out. Then you are in over you head. In replacing, use the 1225 b cartridge, genuine moen.

[aural]

Thank you so much for your advice and instruction, iamgrowler & doug238. I'll be working on this when I get home this evening and I'll post back with my progress. :)

[ballengerb1]

Dribble some white vinegar on and around those stops. Allow to soak and do it again. Could you break them loose, should be trying to turn clockwise.

[PalmMP3]

Maybe we can try a different tactic: does your condo have its own water meter? If it does, there should be a valve immediately after it (or possibly before it, or maybe even built into it) that shuts off all the water to the whole condo. Try locating your meter and that valve, and then you won't have to worry about the integrated stops.

Alternatively, check out your water heater (assuming you have your own): there will definitely be a valve on the heater's piping that will shut off all hot water to the condo; if you're lucky, there might even be another one nearby that shuts the cold water, too.

Moishe

[aural]

Well my friends, you were all right... your instructions were perfect and it was a piece of cake.
New cartridge works better than ever, there's no more hypersensitivity and no more dripping!
I really appreciate all the helpful people on this forum, really, you guys are awesome. Thanks again!
:D