[USNavyWife]

Hi, I'm writing because I am getting conflicting answers and before I spend money to fix this problem I'd like to know the correct way to do it.

Here's the situation. We bought this house in July of 2007. It was built in the 1940's. It is connected to the city sewer system. Plumbing was fine. In December of 2007 we had someone install a 3/4 bath and a utility sink in the basement. Just a couple of weeks after the work was completed the toilet down there stated making belching type sounds. Then the shower down there backed up a few times with water, gravel, and dirt when I took a shower upstairs. Then I noticed that what looked like dried toilet paper was around the grate in my driveway. And then I noticed after doing a couple of loads of laundry that water started coming up from the drain in the basement (that the hose from their conditioning unit drains into). The basement drain now overflows when I take a shower upstairs or do laundry. I'm not sure if it is still doing anything outside as I haven't thought to look and have been trying to REALLY limit my water consumption until this is fixed. By the way, there is no smell with the backed up water. I don't know if it is a coincidence that it started backing up shortly after the basement work was completed or if the guy did something wrong ar a bad job or what.

When I spoke to the guy that did the work, he told me that it was my toilet paper causing the problem and to NOT put any toilet paper in any of the toilets ever. I thought that was ridiculous and still do, I mean come on. He also said that it is or could be because of the drain in the driveway being clogged from mud and such. But we've had heavy rains in the past couple of days and no water collected in my backyard so I guess that drain is working okay. Anyway, he insists that the problem is toilet paper and or mud in my outside drain and that the drain needs to be snaked from the basement drain and that will fix it.

After hearing the toilet paper thing, I decided to ask someone else. Granted, this is just over the phone but the other guy said that first, NO toilet paper should be coming from the drain outside. That it is a storm drain and has nothing to do with the drainage system from the house and if toilet paper is coming up from it, then the guy that did the work most likely tapped into the wrong system and has the drainage from the house going into the storm drain system, which is very bad and a big deal to fix (break up concrete floor again, and so on). He also said that the guy must not have vented it and that is why the toilet is burping, because it is trying to get air anyway it can. (I vaguely remember having the inspector say the same thing about it not being vented and that it could cause problems down the road). New guy said that the guy that did the work must have just hooked everything up to the existing system and that it was only meant to withstand the fixtures that were already in the house. He said the other guy did it the easy way and not the right way. His fix is to first check the roof vent and make sure that it isn't clogged by a nest or animal carcass. Then he wants to snake the line (I don't recall if he said from where), but I think he was talking about doing it from the basement. He said that snaking it might fix it but that I would have the same problem after a couple of weeks. He said he would snake it basically to appease the first guy, but he thinks ultimately the first guy needs to redo what he did wrong in the first place because that is the problem.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I could really use some help. Thanks in advance.

Nicole

[PalmMP3]

Yes, it sounds like the first guy screwed up badly.

First of all, he is full of industrial-grade fertilizer (if you catch my drift) for telling you not to flush toilet paper. Toilet paper, unlike paper towels or napkins, is specially formulated to fall apart when wet (try it yourself - soak a piece of toilet paper, then try using it to wipe something and watch it crumble) precisely so that it should not clog anything.

Either way, the fact that the toilet is not vented alone is a big enough boo-boo to get the guy in serious trouble, espicially if the inspector said it was no good. Any handyman with even a rudimentary knowledge of plumbing knows that you can't install anything - ESPECIALLY a toilet - without properly venting it. He should be brought back and made to redo the job properly, at no extra cost to you.

Hope this helps,
Moishe

[speedball1]

Something's Really wrong with your drainage if you getting dirt and gravel backing up out of your drain and toilet paper coming out of your storm drain.
The dirt and gravel indicates a open line and the toiletv paper indicates a cross connection. Also the toilet needs to be vented if it isn't wet vented by the other fixtures. Either way you need a competent plumber out there to access the problem. Sue the hell out of the first clown that did the work and if the new guy thinks that snaking the drain is going to fix everything then replace him and get a man in that will give you definite answers and a solid plan to get you out frrom under the nightmare that the first clown put you in.
The first incompetent plumber, or his company, should be made to pay for the entire cost of making your job right. I hate to see plumbers who do botched up work such as yours. Please let me know how this turns out. Tom

[USNavyWife]

Thanks for the quick responses. The second guy came over and took a look today. He checked the vent on the roof and it was clear. He looked downstairs and saw the floor was wet and looked in the shower and saw the black gravel looking stuff. Then he went out to my driveway and looked in what he says and what I think is the storm drain. (It is in the middle of my driveway and is about 3inches around with a plastic grate on top.) He saw that there was water or something in there about 2 feet down, so he reached in and pulled out stuff that was obviously from the toilet. He said, yep just what he thought. He said the first guy must have connected to the first pipe he hit and that was the storm drain. He said that it is higher up and that the sewer line has to be 18 inches down as per code for the frost line.

I have dealt with the first guy more than I would have liked to. When I originally told him that I thought maybe he messed up, he insulted me and then hung up on me. My husband (who is in another state right now) then talked to him and he said if it is something he did wrong that he would fix it. Fast forward to today and after what happened before I was not at all anxious to talk to him again. So I called my husband and he called the guy. The guy says he didn't do anything wrong, goes on again about toilet paper, says he knows nothing about a storm drain and that we don't have one, says he's not fixing anything as he didn't do anything wrong, and then goes on to insult me, my husband and then threaten him over the phone. I am kind of scared and I don't know what recourse I have. I mean I'm sure it will cost a lot to fix it and do it how it shoulld have been done to begin with and we definitely don't have that kind of money right now. What can I do? Can I make him fix it or pay to fix it? If so, how do I go about it? Any suggestions?

Thanks so much.

[PalmMP3]

Don't let him get away with this. Report the scumbag to whoever you can - the BBB, Buildings Department Code Violations Bureau, etc. - or at least threaten to. You can probably even sue that moron in court.

But most of all, don't be intimidated by anything he tells you - always remember that YOU are right in this matter. And I repeat what I said before: DON'T LET THAT *BEEP!* GET AWAY WITH THIS!!

[donf]

Dear Navy,

Thanks to both you and your husband for serving with and in the Navy.

Speedball, I was glancing through this posting and I thought to myself, self there can't be two full blown field people who are specially trained to wreak havoc on unsuspecting customers.

Any way, a few years back we put a partial bath into our basement.

The first set of plans showed an up-john with a small vent pipe stubbed just slightly higher than the riser I would have to build to accommodate the Upjohn holding tank. The tank was to discharge down and through a 3.5 inch pvc drain to the grade drain run off.

I of course smelled rat, so I took the plans to our inspectors who just started listing all the errors. The second set of plans made much more sense. The vent pipe exited the roof line. The discharge from the toilet went to the holding tank and was then pumped up to the main septic tank lined and out to the tank.

What are the odds that the new toilet is being discharged out to a gray water tank or a drainage run off?