[tenfeettallshatterproof]

I have always wanted to move away from the U.S. but I want to do it permanently without the hassle of work visas and "checking in" every year or so. All the flights are very expensive as well. I was told by an acquaintance that I can even receive money for renouncing my citizenship! How do I go about renouncing and will the U.S. gov't pay me to leave?

[tickle]

Here is information on reouncing US citizenship which I think you should read and consider. I personally think it is one of the most horrendous things any person can do. You may wind up being a person without a country and no where did I find mention of being paid to do it.

Now, here is something else to consider, being a US citizen may benefit you finding citizenship anywhere else.

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality:

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

In the recent case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon's petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, "claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States." See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of citizenship. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

[Lowtax4eva]

Ummm, I would try and get citizenship somewhere else first, it can take years to become a citizen of another country and you can't just decide you want british citizenship and fill out some form... they don't autimatically accept everyone.

You have to have a job in a european country and first apply to be a permanent resident (or their equivalent) and after a few years you can apply to be a citizen.

It is by no means an easy process to get citizenship in a country that is not your birth country, and it is not guaranteed. You may get denied entry to even live there temporarily.

Read up a lot more before you do anything

[shygrneyzs]

The joke used to be that people here in the U.S. would go and live in Canada but why would Canada want any more problems?

LT is correct that it is not an easy thing to renounce your U.S. citizenship. If you would be successful at that, you may not be allowed entrance back in. Which, you may say is no big deal. What happens if a member of your family dies and you want to come back for the family?

[Lowtax4eva]

Actually what I was trying to say was that it is easy to renounce your US citizenship... BUT where will you go? It's very hard to get citizenship in another country unless you have some strong ties to a European country.

[dimpls]

You never miss something until its gone. I think it is a great mistake to think of renouncing you American citizenship. Some countries in europe will offer dual citizenship. Check that option out. America doesn't mind if you keep your citizenship and gain another. If the country that you want to get citizenship only will allow it if you renounce your American citizenship, then maybe that's a country you just want to visit and not live there. I have dual citizenship and I live in America but I lived overseas for 11 years, and I will tell you I've always felt safer knowing I was an American then with the citizenship of the other country. My children also have dual citizenship. Ask about other options about gaining citizenship in the European country before you renounce your American citizenship. Good Luck

[Nurisim]

Do already live in said country? Often times you have to live for several years in a country with a work visa before you can even think about applying for citizenship (I may be exaggerating a bit). Ridding yourself of American citizenship would be an awfully drastic measure to take to avoid the "hassle" of work visas and expensive plane flights. What if you lost your job, or as someone said, a family member grew sick? Getting an American visa is EXTREMELY hard, even a tourist visa. Immigration rules vary significantly from country to country, but being an ex-patriot isn't that difficult. My sister, as an international aid coordinator who lives overseas, knows PLENTY of ex-patriots from tons of countries who would never even think about terminating their citizenship. I would definitely make sure you are positive your living situation overseas is STABLE and that there aren't going to be any political uprisings or coups. And then, if it is still something you really want to do, to each his own I suppose :)

[Fr_Chuck]

You may of course renouce your citizenship, but then you will not have any, so there will be no embassy to give you help, there will be no passport to go between nations, you would be stuck and if the nation you are in, deports you, where do you go?

So you should have a nation that would agree to accept you. And of course if you don't want to be a citizen of this great nation, you will know what you are missing when it is gone

[tim and suzanne]

The point is if I am in the UK and give up my US citizenship then they can't deport me.

And onto what you said about "missing this great nation" surely you must be joking!

What is "great" about America? Please do tell.

America has always talked about freedom this and opportunity that but there is none of that. I couldn't care less about this country. There is nothing important here that England doesn't have but in England the government CARES about it's people.

If you are sick in England you get 100% free health care and free medicine regardless of anything. They don't care if you have insurance or if you've hit hard times, all they care about is making sure you're healthy.

If you become unemployed in England they give you assistance finding a job and money to help get you by.

If you become homeless for any reason in England that same day they will put you up in a bed and breakfast until they can give you a flat or house to live in permently.

You see, it's not really about what the government gives it's people but simply the fact that they CARE about what happens to it's people.

This great nation you're referring to must be a dream but it doesn't care if you're homeless or sick or in need. In fact, these soldiers we have fighting this ridiculous war in Afghanastan and Iraq will really see the truth of their country when they get back home and realize that all they were fighting for was money for the people already in power.

When they get sick do you really think that the government will help them? How about when they lose their homes and can't hold a job because of all of the mental problems and flash backs they have because of what they saw and experienced for this "great nation"?

Go to DC or NY and ask the people living on streets what happened to them. Sure, a few simply gave up but others were made that way through no fault of their own and I bet at least half of them were in the military.

Please do reply here or email me about what is so great about this country.

I know now that a lot of people speak the way I do and so called patriots like yourself simple say that if we don't like this country, then leave. Well I DID!

[s_cianci]

Ultimately it depends on the laws of the country in which you wish to become a citizen. I don't know about the U.S. government giving you money to renounce your citizenship. Personally I would hope that that isn't true.

[tim and suzanne]

He might be refearing to something they came out with in England a while back. Basically they were giving 3 thousand pounds to asylum seekers to leave the country. I really doubt america would do that.

[lawanwadee]

You have the right to choose but it should be AFTER you obtain British citizenship.

To renounce US citizenship does not mean they cannot deport you.

[tim and suzanne]

What would happen though? I remember in the movie the Terminal he was stuck in a sort of limbo but considering I have a wife, daughter, home, job etc in England could thry deport me? To where? If I was able to give up my citizenship then they couldn't really deport me back to the states because once I give up my citizenship(if possible) wouldn't the british government have an obligation to allow me to stay and live there?

Has anyone actually heard of this happening?

[tickle]

I don't know, I think I wouldn't want the stigma this might cause my family if I renounced a citizenship of a coutry I was born in and moved to a completely different country.

I think in this case a proper attorney should be asked just so all legal/monetary/long term ramifications are sorted out before taking a step like this. I don't think the british government would have any obligation to give you assylum. You, or anyone really would be considered a man without a country. I don't think I would like that personally. It would give a bad reptutation on any international level and possibly effect your passport qualifications, and when it gets right down to the nitty griity, your passport is all you have left.

[Curlyben]

T&S, don't kid yourself.
If the US want to deport you there is very LITTLE the UK government will do to keep you in this country.
There has been a number of high profile cases recently where the merest hint of "evidence" was shown as just cause for deportation of UK citizens!

[tim and suzanne]

Just to add a bit more info.

To obtain British Citizenship first I would need a 2 year spousal visa, then my residency for 5 years, then citizenship.

I already had a 2 year spousal visa and was denied for residency because of lack of evidence and of course I couldn't appeal because they received the application a whole 5 days late and was removed from the UK.

I am more than happy to give up my US citizenship once I get another spousal visa. BUT, in the unlikely event I'm denied I'm hoping I can get back hom this way.

[tim and suzanne]

I wasn't deported from the US. I've been living in the UK for the past 3 and a half years with my wife. I have absolutely no ties to America at all. The one thing I think would help once I fly over is the fact that I'm type 1 Diabetic. I tried everything I could when I was being removed(not deported) to not get on the plane. My sugar was sky high but this time I plan on not taking any insulin for 2 days before the flight. That way, my body will be in DKA or Ketoacidoses. If I fly over in that condition, once I land they should have no choice but to hospitalize me. Once I'm there in hospital I should be able to give up my American citizenship but of course with a bit of manipulation of my medicine I'll still be hospitalized.

It's a very very dangerous thing to do but no one seems to understand. My family is in England, I have nothing here. If it weren't for the very kind church family that is helping me at the moment I'd still be sleeping at the airport.

[tickle]

I was confused, this thread started with a poster named 'tenfeetallshatterproof' and morphed into tim and suzanne with their own pacement issues.

Okay, T&S, I read what your plans are re not taking your insulin for 2 days and to be quite frank, I am a diabetic to, but not insulin dependent as you are. You are putting pain and suffering on the line here to gain time and be back with your family. I can only say I hope it works out for you, but you know in your heart that it could all backfire too.

[tim and suzanne]

Thanks. I do realise the consequences but if we don't get this visa, literally, my life would be over.

After my wife and I were married, we flew into Gatwick and of course because I didn't get a spousal visa before hand they considered not allowing me in the country. Originally the plan was to come over for 6 months on a visitor visa while we figured out what to do about the immigration issues. This is going back 3 and a half years of course and after my 6 month visitor visa we got my spousal visa.

I just remember what allowed me to get my 6 month visitor visa. The immigration officer said that because I was diabetic they couldn't put me back on a flight right away. Luckily in the time we convinced the officer to stamp my passport and we went from there.

I really wish I knew the ins and outs of the law concerning all this.

[tim and suzanne]

*bump*

Does anyone know what would happen or if this is possible?

Suppose I became very very injured was I landed, i.e.. Lost a finger

Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks