[anguishedmom]

My son received a misdemeanor DWI in Denton County, TX when he was a freshman in college, age 19. He is now 27 and has not been able to find employment since that day because employers do credit checks which have this on record. I've been helping him scrape by all these years. Now employers still see that on his record in addition to a long history of unemployment! I cannot stand the financial strain any longer and my son is demoralized. Is there a typical time limitation as to how far back n employer checks in regard to DWIs? Is there no end to this?

[Fr_Chuck]

First it is not on a credit report, it will be on his background check, either his drivers record or his creiminal background.

Next BULL, this is the least of the things he could be charged with, there are judges that have them, lawyers, accountants, and if he is not gettting a job it is because he has other issues in his background or is just not doing a good resume or not dressing for the job, or perhaps does not really want to work.

McDondalds is hiring, they could care less for a DWI and by now he could be a manager had he started 5 years ago.

Sorry time to stop helping and start making him find work and do it.

[anguishedmom]

Thanks for your response Fr_Chuck. Your view is, unfortunately, very typical. The truth is, the least he could have been charged with was a DUI. A DUI may be expunged from your record after 8 years. A DWI is there for life. As recently as 10 years ago, a young person with a DWI could be hired, but that is not the case anymore. I'd bet the judges, lawyers, itc. That you refer to either a) were already employed in those fields when they received their DWIs or b) got those jobs more than 10 years ago before things got so letigious. Businesses fear lawsuits if they employ someone with a DWI on their record. There are plenty of others out there with clean records to hire. That's why I need to know if there is anything that can be done from someone with a legal background.

[excon]

Hello mom:

I got to tell you, I have a lot worse background than your son. Yes, I've had to work harder than the other guy to get jobs... Ok, so what?

Maybe it's because you son is looking for someone to give him a break... Emloyers are more interested in what your son can DO for them, rather than the other way around.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

I am still having an issue here unless your DWI stands for some law other than what I am used to.

The difference for most is what the state laws call it, some statues call it DUI ( driving under the influence) and other states call it driving while intoxicated.

The same actual crime, just depends on the state law that is is written under. For example one state will have a DUI but not a DWI.
And to any company I know of there is no more stigma to one than another one.

But no, I know of police officers hired with a privious Driving under the influence that was over 7 years old. I know police officers that had done drugs 100's of times as a young that were hired.

But sorry, this will have a little effect on many jobs still. If he is not finding a job, he needs to work on many other things to make him look better. This should have little effect any longer.

[ScottGem]

I have to go along with Chuck and excon. A youthful indiscretion should not have had this affect. Assuming he graduated from college, with no repeat problem,he would have gone 3 years with a clean record. I can't imagine many employers holding that against him. So I suspect there is something else going on here.

Have you tried doing a background check yourself to see what shows up? Is he being told by employers that the DWI is the reason for not being hired?

[twinkiedooter]

Sounds like Sonny's giving you a song and dance. Credit checks are one thing. He probably has bad credit period. The old DWI is a misdemeanor. Most employers ask if someone has had a felony conviction within the last 7 years and skip the misdemeanor unless it was for theft or deceit of some kind. Pull a credit report on Sonny and see if he's got bad credit.

[anguishedmom]

I truly appreciate your help. He was given a job at Best Buy based on a friend putting in a good word for him. He was interviewed twice, told what clothes to wear and when to start. Then his background report came in and they wrote a letter explaining that they could not give him "further consideration for employment" based on "information contained in a consumer report made at our request and provided by ChoicePoint Workplace Solutions." They were considerate enough to attach a copy of that report. All it had on it was the Misdemeanor DWI. All of the other businesses simply never called back.
My son's legal fees wiped out the remainder of his college account and he dropped out back then. He thought he could find a regular job while trying to start his own business. He has met brick wall after brick wall. In hopes that a college degree would trump the DWI, he just re-enrolled in college and has started classes. Yes, I am paying for tuition and books. He is covering his own rent and food (barely) by playing in a band on weekends.
I may never know all there is to know, but I know he is kind and good and has wonderful friends who have tried to help. Did I mention that when the local cop pulled him over at for a.m. on suspicion of DWI, there was no accident or erratic driving involved at all? The cop just made an educated guess and was right. My son had no idea that he could have refused the breathalyzer test. He was taught to respect and obey authority, so he did everything the cop told him to do. I'd say he's paid the price for his indiscretion many times over. I know it's all too hard to believe. It has been a nightmare. Thank you to everyone for your advice and sharing the benefit of your experience.

[ScottGem]

You can try petitioning the court to expunge his record. I would also look for smaller companies that don't have large, impersonal HR depts.

[JudyKayTee]

You can try petitioning the court to expunge his record. I would also look for smaller companies that don't have large, impersonal HR depts.

As usual good advice from Scott.

I have never, ever seen a criminal charge on a credit report - ever - and I see probably hundreds a year.

Something isn't right here.

Maybe he doesn't want to work at McDonalds or Burger King - or the equivalent in Texas - but I can't imagine they run a credit check before they hire, so your son would have to start there and then move on. I'm not sure that the lengthy period of unemployment isn't a problem OR that there is something else at play here. Sounds like the DWI/DUI is a good excuse not to hire or to terminate for some other reason.

[excon]

Hello again, mom:

I don't doubt he's having trouble getting hired. I have a LOT of doubt about the reasons. Additionally, I doubt the other facts as you reported them.

Look, I'm not here to argue with you or challenge you. That isn't my intent. My intent is to give you information that will actually WORK for your son where the wheels meet the road. I know you're doing the best you can with the information you have.

IF you want to help, then you need to get facts. Then armed with your facts, you need to ACT. If you read the responses you received above, you can see what facts you need to sort out.

The first sorted out fact that I detect, is that you have revealed that the report DIDN'T come from his credit report. It came from a background check. THAT piece of information is BIG. There are only three credit bureaus. There are thousands of company's who do background checks. Not all background checks are the same – not even close.

You say a DWI can't be expunged but a DUI can. You're going to need to ferret out whether that is a fact or not. I have a hunch that it's not.

Please fill in the last 8 years of employment history. He's not been out of work the entire time.

What are his work qualifications?? Is he a college graduate??

I bring this stuff up, because from my own personal experience, I can tell you that given what we know, it's NOT his criminal record that's holding him back.

Yes, you have the evidence from Best Buy that it is... I still suggest it isn't.

Did I mentioned that I'm an exconvict? My profile is, unfortunately, true. I AM, however, MORE than my criminal history. I AM a valuable employee. I'm qualified, talented and have something to offer. In fact, I was hired as a general manager with a top Seattle restaurant while I was still living in a half way house, having served over 3 years in the slam.

So, I KNOW your son can work. Let's get the facts, then we can fix 'em.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

How about selling insurance, the DUI or DWI will be no issue at all.
I recommend a good company that has some major offices in Texas.

[rlrl]

I may be able to clear up some of the confusion about credit reports and criminal checks.

First, what it is really known as is a "Consumer Report" which contains several reports such as the credit reports from the 3 bureaus, employment references, driving records, license verifications, education verifications, civil court acvitity, bankruptcy filings. Many employers order a criminal report to be retrieved by a CRA (Consumer Reporting Agency) which collects data from the applicable court jurisdiction where the applicant has lived.

Upon signed authorization of the consumer to have a report made on them(which may include a criminal report), the CRA goes to the court to obtain the record(if any). The CRA has to follow applicable state laws, or if there s no law in the state where the record is being reported, the federal guidelines.

For example, NY state fair credit reporting laws limit reporting of a criminal conviction to 7 years; however if the consumer can be expected to earn $25,000 or more on the job, the 7 year limit does not apply

For a state that does not have it's own reporting guidelines, it follows the federal rule which is reporting arrest information and other adverse info for up to 7 years; however criminal convictions can be reported indefinitely

Now, if the employer does not use a CRA and conducts the criminal check itself, it does not have to follow any laws and does not have to inform you that they are doing the check

[Dramadude]

Hi. Lucky you! You've found someone who knows the answer to this question because I am in the same boat as your son, and around the same time-frame as well. My brush with the law happened in 1999 and it was something MUCH MUCH worse (read as FELONY conviction) than DUI and it also happened in Denton County Texas. Take a deep breath because your problems are about to be solved. There's a law in Texas that prohibits, on pain of a $1000 per DAY fine, a consumer reporting agency (i.e. background checking companies) from reporting any criminal conviction older than seven years AS LONG AS the person is going to be making $75,000 or less per year. The law is Texas Business and Commerce Code, Section 20.05 and states:

a consumer reporting agency may not furnish a consumer report containing information related to: (4) a record of arrest, indictment, or conviction of a crime in which the date of disposition, release, or parole predates the consumer report by more than seven years. Exception: If the salary of an individual equals or is reasonable expected to equal $75,000 or more, the 7-year restriction does not apply.

Don't believe me? Well, here's the link What are the states with seven year pre-employment screening restrictions?

Still not convinced? Well, it's true. I successfully sued UNT for breaking this law. Just tell your son to lie on his application and if they do a background check past 7 years... rejoice, you're about to be rich. Oh, and look! There's other states that have the same 7 year limit. I've been thinking of Colorado myself. There, even the STATE can't deny you licenses, employement, etc. You're Welcome!

[ScottGem]

Seems to be this depends on how a Consumer Report is defined. Does an employment background check qualify? That would seem to be different from a consumer report.

And I would NEVER recommend advising anyone to lie on an employment application.

[JudyKayTee]

Hi. Lucky you! You've found someone who knows the answer to this question because I am in the exact same boat as your son, and around the exact same time-frame as well. My brush with the law happened in 1999 and it was something MUCH MUCH worse (read as FELONY conviction) than DUI and it also happened in Denton County Texas. Take a deep breath because your problems are about to be solved. There's a law in Texas that prohibits, on pain of a $1000 per DAY fine, a consumer reporting agency (i.e. background checking companies) from reporting any criminal conviction older than seven years AS LONG AS the person is going to be making $75,000 or less per year. The law is Texas Business and Commerce Code, Section 20.05 and states:

a consumer reporting agency may not furnish a consumer report containing information related to: (4) a record of arrest, indictment, or conviction of a crime in which the date of disposition, release, or parole predates the consumer report by more than seven years. Exception: If the salary of an individual equals or is reasonable expected to equal $75,000 or more, the 7-year restriction does not apply.

Don't believe me? Well, here's the link What are the states with seven year pre-employment screening restrictions?

Still not convinced? Well, it's true. I successfully sued UNT for breaking this law. Just tell your son to lie on his application and if they do a background check past 7 years.... rejoice, you're about to be rich. Oh, and look! There's other states that have the same 7 year limit. I've been thinking of Colorado myself. There, even the STATE can't deny you licenses, employement, etc. You're Welcome!

Never good advice to lie on an employment application unless you have a wish to be terminated for no other reason other than they found out - don't believe the lie on the application and if they find out you'll be rich statement - at least not in NYS.

[excon]

Hello:

I was pleasantly surprised to find this information. It's good stuff. I would be interested in which state cannot deny licenses. Maybe I'll go there and be a doctor.

In terms of Scott's question, since Washington is listed as one of those states, I looked. Here's what it says:

(5) "Consumer reporting agency" means a person who, for monetary fees, dues, or on a cooperative nonprofit basis, regularly engages in whole or in part in the business of assembling or evaluating consumer credit information or other information on consumers for the purpose of furnishing consumer reports to third parties, and who uses any means or facility of commerce for the purpose of preparing or furnishing consumer reports. "Consumer reporting agency" does not include a person solely by reason of conveying a decision whether to guarantee a check in response to a request by a third party or a person who obtains a consumer report and provides the report or information contained in it to a subsidiary or affiliate of the person.

I believe they're referring to the credit bureaus. I don't believe these include any of the myriad background check companies. And, I found no sanctions for violating any of these provisions, so I don't think anybody's going to be rich.

excon

[rlrl]

Licensing and Consumer Reporting are different things.

When a Consumer Report is going to be prepared on a consumer, the consumer has to give their signed authorization for a Consumer Report to be prepared and usually the consumer is informed that a criminal background report (if any) will be included as well. A criminal background check can be part of a Consumer Report if that is what is being included and the consumer gives their written authorization

However, unless a licensing agency is preparing a consumer report on a prospective licensee and obtains the licensee's written authorization, the licensing board can either do the background check on their own via going to the court OR checking state criminal records on their own, if they are allowed to do so. In this case, credit reporting rules do not apply at all

In fact, most licensing agencies do not use Consumer Reporting companies to check criminal backgrounds because they(since they are govt agencies) are already authorized to check state and federal records or they are free to check court records

Credit reporting laws only apply if a Consumer Reporting company is being used

Consumer Reporting companies generally are used by private companies who are otherwise not allowed to check Federal and state records which are confidential. Licensing agencies usually are govt agencies and are permitted to check state and federal criminal records so they don't need to use a consumer reporting company

I know this is confusing but if you have any other questions feel free to ask me

I know this because I myself have a violation conviction for a petty(non-criminal) offense in NY that is 12 years old so I personally have experience with this

[rlrl]

Consumer Reporting agencies and credit bureaus are 2 different things. Credit bureaus are the 3 bureas where credit info is stored or housed like Equifax, transUnion and Experian. The only parties who can access info from the bureaus are the consumer themselves and a consumer reporting agency with a signed authorization from the consumer

A Consumer Reporting agency obtains the info from the bureaus upon signed authorization from the consumer


Criminal background checks in a consumer report are separate from the bureau reports. If you have perfect credit with FICO scores of 850 and you have a felony conviction, your FICO scores remain the same. However an employer may choose not to hire someone because there was a 'felony on their credit" but what they really mean is that there is a felony in their Consumer Credit report

Similarly, if you have a clean criminal record but you have bad credit, an employer may or may not have a problem with that

[rlrl]

If the employer that rejected your son was based in Texas than the Texas fair credit statute mentioned should apply. The Texas statute applies not to where the case happened but rather where the employer os located in

This is assuming that the employer used a reporting company in doing the check

If it did not use a company and it conducted the check itself (ie by obtaining the record from the court on it's own) then there would be no time limit on reporting it


And if the employer is based in a state that has no credit reporting law of it's own, then it follows the federal model in which convictions are reported indefinitely