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    RiverRat1's Avatar
    RiverRat1 Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jan 1, 2008, 06:33 PM
    Girty's Island, Maumee River
    Happy New Year Everyone!

    I am currently researching Girty's Island in the Maumee River, near Florida Ohio. Looking for artifacts from a time long ago.

    So far I know that Simon Girty hid there and his brother George had a trading post, both in the 1700's. I have also learned that there was other structures built on the island in the early 1900's, one being a victorian amusement park. I have also heard rumors that there was also a dance hall at one time.

    This past summer, I found the remains of an old foundation and the remains of a log used in the building with the log tag still attached. This foundation is nothing like what we see today. I am looking for information that may lead me to what remains I have found so I can identify the time in which it was built. I am also looking to know what all structures once stood on the island. This would help date any artifacts I may find.

    Sincerely hoping someone know something. :)
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #2

    Jan 1, 2008, 08:26 PM
    I put this response in the other thread... hope it helps?

    I wonder if you've had an opportunity to meet with
    The City of Defiance, City Historian Randy Buchman?

    I know he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable about the area and would highly suggest contacting him. He has done digs at some of the forts... etc.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #3

    Jan 2, 2008, 06:58 AM
    In the 1780's Simon Girty and his brother had a Trading Post in the bend of the Maumee
    River on Highway 24, about 7 miles from Defiance State Park, on Girty's Island.
    Outlaw Simon Girty had a cabin near Fort Miami and robbed pioneers and helped the Indians(not the ones at your local MiniMart) fight colonist During the Indian War of 1790-
    1796, using Fort Miami for protection. He ammassed a large store of coins and other valuables which he buried in various caches around the fort. Girty went to Canada in 1800 and was never allowed to reenter the U.S. and his plundered treasure was never recovered.
    Fort Miami, AKA Fort Campbell, founded by the French in 1748 on the site of a Fur Trading post and stockade. The Fort was taken over by the British from 1763-1812.
    RiverRat1's Avatar
    RiverRat1 Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Jan 2, 2008, 06:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    I put this response in the other thread... hope it helps?

    I wonder if you've had an opportunity to meet with
    The City of Defiance, City Historian Randy Buchman??

    I know he is EXTREMELY knowledgable about the area and would highly suggest contacting him. He has done digs at some of the forts... etc.

    No I haven't, but I will now. Thank you so much! My search started three years ago with a ghost story of Simon Girty of Girty's Island from a friend who grew up on the river. I had no idea how rich the history is on the river I love so much. I have been hooked ever since.
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #5

    Jan 2, 2008, 06:37 PM
    You've got me very interested in visiting the island. My dad said he was there once about 40 years ago. Is the island owned by anyone? Open for visitors? Or what is the situation? Maybe it is a state property? Just wondering. Would it make a good place to do primitive camping in warmer weather?
    RiverRat1's Avatar
    RiverRat1 Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jan 2, 2008, 07:52 PM
    Again, I want to thank you for your info. I now have Professor Buchman's e-mail (it only took an hour of searching. Found him at Defiance College) and I plan on e-mailing him next.

    The island is not state property and who owns it now is what I am currently searching for also. I do know it has been sold several times going back in history.

    Many people go to the island for fun in the sun. Mostly to party. I know because on my adventures, I have picked up their trash. It makes me very sad that these people don't have any respect for nature or history.

    You can go to Henry County history sight and get driving directions to the island. However, I don't know if you can get on the island without a boat. If you can, it would be from the north side of the river. I am planning a trip now to see if it is possible. The best time to explore would be in the winter or early spring because in many places, the island is like a jungle with so much under-growth. Getting these driving directions, I discovered that a small part of the erie canal still stands just west of the island. I plan on seeing this too.

    I am dying to get back to the old foundation I found (found it right before boating season ended for us). I know this must be very old because it is not a solid foundation. Just corner cement pieces with cement barriers like blocks every eight to ten feet apart where the walls would have been. I also found an old septic canal made of brick that took waste water away from this structure.

    I also came across an old Oliver tractor from the 40's and what is left of an old car. How they got this stuff on the island, I haven't a clue. I also found several old junk piles around and near the foundation area. I was so busy going through these piles for clues as to what era they were, I never got a chance to use my metal detector. That is why I can't wait to get back there. Plus the chance of finding something from the 1700's on top of something from the late 1800's, early 1900's, wow! I am not looking for riches, just the opportunity to find and hold a piece of history in my hands. If you get a chance, you must go back to the island.
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #7

    Jan 2, 2008, 08:05 PM
    Awesome... my dad told me it had been used as sort of an amusement park a long time back, and that people were ferried over. Can't wait to get out that way!
    RiverRat1's Avatar
    RiverRat1 Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jan 3, 2008, 12:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    Awesome... my dad told me it had been used as sort of an amusement park a long time back, and that people were ferried over. Can't wait to get out that way!
    This is great news! That means that the facts I found this past weekend is true! Who doesn't drop some change at an amusement part. Wouldn't it be great to find an old dime or quarter from the early 1900's! Did your Dad ever mention the time frame of the park?

    And my biggest news is that Professor Buchman e-mailed me back! He is currently switching over to a new lap top with a new program. Once done, he promised to send me much information that will help in my search.

    I don't know where you live, but if I can help you to get on the island, you are more then welcome to come with me and my husband by boat if it can't be reached by land.
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #9

    Jan 7, 2008, 06:19 PM
    Your postings are quite interesting. I used to live in the Napoleon area and would venture into the countryside looking for old farmhouses, etc. One thing I would like to tell you about when you are hunting out on the island. Should you come across any old glass bottles buried (or unburied) save them and bring them home as they can be worth quite a tidy sum for the real old ones. There is an antique bottle club that I used to belong to that meets once a month in Wadsworth area at the local Eagles Club. They would meet the last Wed or Thurs of the month. They would find your bottles most interesting. They have a web site - Ohio Bottle Club.
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    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #10

    Jan 7, 2008, 10:40 PM
    Thanks for the tip! Last summer, I was out picking up aluminum cans from the ditch along the road... a very slow and only half buried treasure? But I found an old blue bottle that I brought home. Before that, I even found an unused police bullet on one of my hikes... I turned it in, and it was estimated at 20 years old... how they could tell I have no idea but it was interesting... a few other items I found that way include various tools... so one never knows what to expect... my mom once put some cans in her van only to have a snake come out of one of them and slither around under the seats and over her feet before they could get it out of the van!!
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #11

    Jan 8, 2008, 08:48 AM
    They have guest speakers at their monthly meetings. They are a fun bunch of people from all walks of life. The members bring in their old bottle collections for everyone to goo over. There was a dig in Akron where a lot of bottles were uncovered from a bottle plant back in the late 1860's in that area. It was where a new library was going up. The curator of the local museum was there with the actual bottles for everyone to look over, handle, etc. They are most interested in anything old from Ohio, not just old bottles. They like old houses also. One speaker happily educated us in the different architectural styles of the different homes in Ohio going back to the 1700's. I had no idea we had such diverse architectural styles here. It was quite fascinating.

    By the way, some of the old bottles are worth big bucks, too. So you might want to keep that in mind if you unearth an old bottle. The club members would be more than delighted to help you discover how old your bottle is and what it is worth and maybe buy it off you as they are always looking for "finds". They go out on their own private digs also all over this area. They have old milk bottle collections also. Who would think that an old milk bottle could be worth anything!
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #12

    Jan 8, 2008, 02:01 PM
    I live in the Keys, and look for old things on the bottom of the ocean or on land and in the Mangroves. One time, while my girl was shopping, I ran through the woods doing a quick exploration, and found the coolest bottle.
    It said "John Walker and Sons", 1820, it had a big wide neck with a lead seal around the neck, Kind of a Mateuse type bottle. Looked like maybe had been in a mold or something as it has swirl on the surface of the bottle, with Raised Flowers. Also the bottom you could almost slide a pencil under it, as it was rounded, as to be able to rest on your leg more comfortably. Went to bottle sites, no on can identify.
    Went to John walker site and the have an "1820" but that is a modern bottle, I think they never heard of it either. It looks 180 years old?
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #13

    Jan 8, 2008, 03:42 PM
    That does sound like the real McCoy. I'd contact Johnny Walker factory and see if they can help you. Most old bottles were hand blown and not in molds however. You can tell if it's handblown from the pontil mark on the bottom of the botte. If it has a pontil mark you have yourself a rare old bottle.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #14

    Jan 8, 2008, 04:11 PM
    I sent that bottle Out West to a family member from Edinburogh(Forgive spelling). They had a leak in the Bathroom, an idiot contractor sealed area in plastic, which created a mold factory. House had to be destroyed, Storage company had moved items into storage,
    Not safe for her to have the Bottle? Minerals and books I have been sending my niece.
    Their was a lawsuit, Storage company "Lost" many things,among them was that bottle.
    It is the only one I ever saw. Except later saw one on eBay. I bid on it, but did not keep up
    And did not get bottle, I believe it to be the same one. Hindsight, I should have "Looked at sellers other items". The only way this could be solved is if eBay, could Verify Item was from "Vegas", It would give them cause to look further, I can not get a hold of the right person.
    If Seller worked at the company or associates, would be easy for Detective to Figure out,
    Down here, their success rate is not good, Many crimes here go unsolved.
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #15

    Jan 8, 2008, 06:03 PM
    Ebay is the happy recipient of many stolen items. I've read many articles where the thief waits a week or so and then lists the stolen items on Ebay. I hope it was not too long ago, but then if someone actually bought the bottle you'd have to prove you owned it in the first place, that it was "lost" and that they are in the possession of stolen goods.

    Rule of thumb. Anytime you give or lend anything to anybody... don't look to see it coming back in a big hurry, if ever! I don't lend books to anyone. I just outright give them away as I never see them again.
    RiverRat1's Avatar
    RiverRat1 Posts: 27, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Jan 8, 2008, 08:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
    Your postings are quite interesting. I used to live in the Napoleon area and would venture into the countryside looking for old farmhouses, etc. One thing I would like to tell you about when you are hunting out on the island. Should you come across any old glass bottles buried (or unburied) save them and bring them home as they can be worth quite a tidy sum for the real old ones. There is an antique bottle club that I used to belong to that meets once a month in Wadsworth area at the local Eagles Club. They would meet the last Wed or Thurs of the month. They would find your bottles most interesting. They have a web site - Ohio Bottle Club.
    Thank you very much for your information. So far I have found a particle bottle (the very top and the opening). My friend who was with me is a chemist and told me to keep it for two reasons. The clear had became pearl-like, which means it should be around a hundred years old (the time it takes for glass to become pearl-like). And the opening has no seam, meaning it was hand form, not processed. Sice this is your area, are these facts true?

    The same friend lives in an old farm house in Portage, Ohio. In his back yard, he has dug up many old bottles and he gave me one. It is a complete bottle, small. On one side, in raised lettering states "DOCT MARSHALLS". On the other side "SNUFF" is in raised lettering. Like the partial I found, it too is clear glass which has became pearl-like. What can you tell me about this bottle?

    From Washington PA, on an old farm, I found a two blue mason jar. Do these hold any historical value? On the same trip, I also collected several old soda bottles, labeled Washington Cola Company, which Coke bought out many, many years ago. Is there any worth to these bottles?

    Looking forward to hearing from you!
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #17

    Jan 9, 2008, 10:35 AM
    Can't tell you the worth of the bottles but I can tell you that when the bottles have no side seams they were definitely hand blown and signify earlier bottles. Old mason jars are sometimes rare and valuable. Some people collect these rarer ones. The value again is whether they are rare. The fact you collect the old coke bottles you will notice that each different community had their own bottles made especially for them. Years ago this was the practice as there really was no trucking industry as we know now existed and they had to have the bottles manufactured relatively close to where the product was made.

    http://www.ohiobottles.freehomepage.com/ This is the home page for the Ohio Bottle Club. They have what is called "Shows" around the state of Ohio periodically throughout the year. I just checked the site and it's not been updated in awhile as Brian Arman must be busy again. But you can shoot him an email and find out if any shows are coming to your area this calendar year. I know him and he's a nice guy in his 20's.

    You may take your bottles to these shows and usually there are several enthusiasts there would will be more than happy to help you discover just how much your bottles are worth. I am surprised that a teeny tiny bottle that once held medicine would be worth more than a much bigger older bottle. The value depends on its scarcity. Ohio has the largest old bottle club in the nation, by the way.

    I do have to warn you, though, once you start collecting and discovering old bottles... you're going to be hooked! But seriously, it's a fun hobby to have if you like digging around. The best places to find bottles are around old properties like old farmhouses in the family dump or the family privy (believe it or not) as they really didn't have trash collection available back in the 1800's and a family would just throw any and everything in the privy and when it would get filled up they'd just dig a new one nearby and start all over again! I'd hear stories from the members about privy and trash pile digging finding all kinds of neat valuable items and bottles.

    I don't remember if there is any kind of entrance fee for the shows, but if there is, it is well worth the entrance fee as old bottles are fascinating. They also have loads of good food available that the members of the club cook themselves. Very good food by the way. These people sure know how to eat. If you also can come to the monthly meetings in Wadsworth, usually in the evenings starting at 6:30PM and running till 9:30PM or so and they always have some kind of snack free of charge available. The yearly dues are in the $15 range for a whole family. That entitles you to get the monthly newsletter called the Swirl mailed to you. That little monthly newsletter has lots of color pictures and plenty of history of old bottles.

    I'd love to hear more of your adventures on Girty's Island also as I am fascinated with old Ohio. Also, if you can locate where you think a house once was I'm sure you will find a real treasure trove in the family junk pit.

    I have a signed first edition book about Ohio's history starting back in the 1700's that I got at Goodwill for 25 cents. This area used to be called the Western Reserve as it actually had something to do with Connecticut!
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #18

    Jan 9, 2008, 03:08 PM
    Connecticut Western Reserve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This link talks about how the area got the name... My son's one ancestor actually came to Cleveland as a surveyor with Moses Cleaveland. I've tried to find official documents listing all the members of the survey party, but the closest I have come is that a party of approximately 23 men (I don't remember without looking it up again) but I didn't find any names... The family story is that he was offered land where Public Square is now located in Cleveland, but instead chose land east of the area as payment for his work...
    twinkiedooter's Avatar
    twinkiedooter Posts: 12,172, Reputation: 1054
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    #19

    Jan 9, 2008, 03:37 PM
    The Moses Cleaveland survey party had a Seth Pease along as a surveyor and in 1796 he was astronomer and surveyor and returned the following year as chief surveyor. In 1806 he was commissioned to survey the area west of the Cuyahoga River. He made a map of Cleveland at the time of the first survey and one of the Western Reserve two years later. His field books and journals have been valuable sources of information. During the Jefferson and Madison administrations he served as assistant postmaster to General Gideon Granger, his brother in law.

    Seth Pease and Abraham Tappen made an early map of the Connecticut Western Reserve in 1798.

    James Kingsbury was the first permanent settler in the Western Reserve coming from Alsted, New Hampshire in 1796. He became a Judge in 1800 and Elected a member of the Ohio Legislature in 1805.

    Moses Cleaveland, a graduate of Yale and a lawyer, made a land purchase of $32,600 and was selected as the agent of the Connecticut Land Company. In company with civil engineers, mathematicians, surveyors, an astronomer, a commissary, boatmen, and many helpers he undertook the long trip to the Western Reserve in May, 1796. His instructions were to make treaties with the Indians, to lay out a city, and to lead the survey of the entire Western Reserve.

    This is from the book A Pictorial History of the Western Reserve 1796 to 1860 book I have by Margaret Manor Butler.

    At least I found two additional names for you to try and research!
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    napcop Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Jan 30, 2008, 06:13 PM
    If you go to the north shore of Girty's Island, there you will find Gunn Cemetery. I can't recall his first name, but "Mr" Gunn fought in the Rev. war, then returned and build the house that one of his relatives still lives in today (Eberle's). It is on SR 424, light blue, and across the highway from a "sheep grazing area." Just a little more info. Also, in Napoleon Russell Patterson is a tremendous source of history. You could get find out how to get ahold of him through the historical society across from the Napoleon Public Library. While your researching Girty's, inquire about the brass cannon supposedly off the Eastern point of the island. ;)

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