[Earle]

I need to place a 3/4" L copper pipe vertically about 15' and rest it on the decking as I cannot make any wall attachments. It will go over the top railing and secure at that point. I could put a little weight on the railing but not very much and how would I share the load anyway. The pipe will have some sort of end cap and a t about 12" above that where the water will connect via flex line.

My delima is the end cap carrying the weight. The standard cap is a really thin thing and doesn't look like it is made for that. Compounding this, it is next to the beach and a wind always blows. I anticipate the pipe will experience some buffeting and "wear" on the end cap.

I am thinking of a base plate and cup shaped end to rest the end cap in. Is this reasonable?

If so, what material should the plate and cup be to avoid non-similar corrosion?

Will salt air cause corrosion of the copper?

Will the pipe grow & shrink in length with weather changes?

I will paint the pipe to blend it into the wall color and "hide" it from the condo cops. How is my next question.

Earle

[skiberger]

Maybe use 3/4" PVC if the water will not be for drinking. What's the purpose of this pipe? Your post doesn't explain, or I missed it.

[Earle]

That was my first choice, but the wind will flex it too much. At times the wind blows hard enough to move a weighty patio set around. Also, I can paint PVC but it is a bit fragile and the flexing might make it flake. Once exposed it would powder and get brittle. If it got brittle and the wind flexed it, well... not a pretty picture.

I'm even a bit concerned about copper and would probably buy "K" copper pipe if I could find it. As it is, I'm planning on 3/4" when 1/2" would be fine.

It will be used to carry water from an upper deck to water the plants on the lower one. I will put a battery powered garden timer and drip on it.

Earle

[skiberger]

Look into using PEX tubing.

[Earle]

I don't know anything about PEX so I Googled it and found it is very flexible and cannot be exposed to sunlight for more than a month or 2.

What would really be good is to find a hollow "wing shaped" device that could be exposed to sunlight and fit flat against the wall. Wind would flow over it and sunlight not get to it. Picture one of those wire things you lay on the floor so people won't trip only going up the side of the building. If you see one let me know.

[speedball1]

"I need to place a 3/4" L copper pipe vertically about 15' and rest it on the decking as I cannot make any wall attachments. It will go over the top railing and secure at that point. I could put a little weight on the railing but not very much and how would I share the load anyway. The pipe will have some sort of end cap and a t about 12" above that where the water will connect via flex line."

This doesn't tell us much. Why can't you strap it to the wall or a piling?

"The pipe will have some sort of end cap and a t about 12"The pipe will have some sort of end cap and a t about 12"
Where would the end cap go and what purpose is the tee and where will it connect to? You say," the water will connect via flex line."
Where would the end cap go and what purpose is the tee and where will it connect to? You say,"flex" but don't give any details about what fitting and what connects to the flex line. And last, where is this decking? Porch? Dock? Pier? Please explain what it is you're attempting to do and give us the details of the layout because I sure can't visualize what it is you wish to do or how I can help you do it. I live on the Gulf Coast Beach and we leave our copper exposed. Where do you live that the sea breeze is strong enough to " PVC and if that's the case why not increase too 1" 3/4" schedule #80 PVC which has a much thicker wall? Regards, Tom

[labman]

I am not much of a fan of galvanized, but it is mechanically stout. Oil based paint will quickly peel off it, but the special primers or latex is fine.

[Earle]

How would galvanized stand up to sea air compared to copper?

[caibuadday]

[QUOTE=Earle]How would galvanized stand up to sea air compared to copper?[/QUOTE how about use copper but cover it with cheap 1D black polytubing (slit) and instead of floor wireguard (may not able to stand up against UV) you could make those with 2x4 by rip both sides at 60 degree and 7/8x7/8 channel in the center

[Earle]

It's difficult not to come across as negative - I'm really not, and I do appreciate everybody's input. My original description included that I cannot have any wall attachments and I have to color match the back wall. Also the location is a few hundred yards from the ocean and the wind gets strong enough to slide patio furniture around. I learned a couple days ago the wind actually blew 2 potted plants off the deck a while back.

Galvanized concerns me from a salt corrosion perspective, although they have iron pipe railings which are painted annually by the condo crew. I'm thinking wood protectors would compound the problem by blowing around at least as bad as copper pipe.

The pipe molding description was intended to describe some durable material that is shaped like floor wire guard, not really is that. I'm thinking there must be such a product to hide pipes going up against aluminum siding etc. but haven't found it yet.

If we can, I'd like to go back to my original question about how to support the weight of a copper pipe on the end cap. I intend to put a "T" a foot or so above the end cap for my connection, but the end will be charged with water. What I bought as an end cap is very thin and doesn't appear able to withstand the weight of a 14' 3/4" copper pipe that gets buffeted by wind.

To protect the deck, I have to put down some kind of flat plate (probably brass) and I'm thinking of soldering a brass cup or short piece of brass pipe, for the pipe to rest in onto the plate. If I can find a 3/4" brass end cap I'd jump on it as I believe that would take care of the end cap issue.

What do you think? Anybody seen a brass end cap to fit a 3/4" copper pipe? What about soldering a brass cup to a brass plate? Where do I find a heavy brass plate about 10" square or so?

I don't know why I hadn't thought of brass before. Brass doesn't corrode in salt air does it? I think they use it for boat fittings.

Tomorrow I'll call the local plumbers wholesale distributer and see if they will help.

Again, thanks for all your help.

[speedball1]

"The pipe will have some sort of end cap and a t about 12" above that where the water will connect via flex line."
Where would the end cap go and what purpose is the tee and where will it connect to? You say," the water will connect via flex line." but don't give any details about what fitting and what connects to the flex line. And last, where is this decking? Porch? Dock? Pier? Please explain what it is you're attempting to do and give us the details of the layout because I sure can't visualize what it is you wish to do or how I can help you do it. I live on the Gulf Coast Beach and we leave our copper exposed. Where do you live that the sea breeze is strong enough to "flex" 3/4" PVC and if that's the case why not increase too 1" PVC or 3/4" schedule #80 PVC which has a much thicker wall?

Earle, it might help if you explained in detail what's going on here. Ifyou could answer the above questions it might help. I realize that you have a minds eye picture of what you wish done but we haven't a clue. Could you help us out with more details? Thanks, Tom

[Earle]

Here is the total project layout.

The condo is on the 5th floor of a large multi-building complex located about 1/4 mile from the beach of Santa Monica. The unit has a main floor with a deck about 12'X16' and a loft with adjoining large "patio" like deck about 25' X 30'. The upper deck has a 3' stucco wall with painted pipe railing above that just above the lower deck. Both decks are fully exposed to the beach which, while a great view, experiences a violent wind at times sliding furniture around the upper deck and has blown a couple potted plants off the lower deck.

The upper deck has a water faucet but the lower deck has none. They don't use the upper deck much so no plants up there, but the lower deck is off the main living room and the view is across it to the sea. This is where they have enough potted plants to be a pain to water by hand taking several trips from the bathtub filling a water can across the bedroom to the deck. Because of this the plants don't get water until they beg for it and look likewise.

This project is to make the lower deck come alive with flowers and greenery, way too much for hand watering. To resolve this, I intend to bring water from the upper deck to the lower and connect it to a drip system on a battery timer. The condo has restrictive rules and condo cops to enforce them. One of the rules is you cannot make any exterior wall (all white stucco) attachments.

From the lower deck, I plan to go vertical about 12' to the top of the upper wall, under the railing on top of it and back down to the deck floor. I'll set the pipe into a niche between the floor and the wall (hope I'm not blocking a drain path) and follow the wall to the faucet. I'll connect the pipe to the faucet via a brass "Y" splitter on the faucet and braided hose to the pipe end fitting. This is to keep the modification "temporary" and hopefully out of the rule book.

On the main deck I need to anchor the pipe without permanent fastenings. I thought to protect the deck I'd put a plate with a cup to rest the pipe in to carry the load. I'd put a "T" above that for the actual connection to another braded hose going to a manifold with the drip clock and a faucet for a curly deck hose. The manifold will have legs and stick into the largest pot housing a small tree. There you have the project except the new planters and dozens of flowers.

Initially I thought I'd run 1/2" sched 40 painted a matching wall white. Then they said it gets windy so I made it 3/4" for stiffness. Then they said gale force windy so I thought 3/4" copper. This opened up a lot of stuff I don't want to get into including soldering pipe in the wind, dealing with the weight, painting copper which wants to turn green, etc.

I really want to use PVC if I can mitigate the flexing causing paint to peel which allows it to get brittle which makes it susceptible to snapping in a strong wind. I have some 3/4" sched 40 and it flexes like crazy. It would even slap the wall making for unhappy folks sleeping just on the other side. If it is really, really ridged I'd like to use whatever I need to and stick with PVC. I probably can get away with 1", but nervous about appearance issues of larger sizes.

Now about sched 80. Is it stiff enough to not flex? Is there a "special" paint I should use that won't flake if it does flex?

Thanks, for asking the question and I hope you can jump in here.

Earle

[labman]

If you are going down, could you just run a garden hose? Let it hang from the hose bibb. It even comes in white. Put something under it where it goes over the edge to keep the bending radius long. Surely the condo rules allow a garden hose. If the wind whips it around and wears it out in a few year, replace it. I never heard of the wind blowing a hose attached to the hose bibb away.

[speedball1]

Earle,

Why didn't you explain all this in the first place? Try this on for size. Schedule #80 White PVC pipe. To support the upper half you could use ells to make a hook that would support the hanging pipe and terminate in a female hose thread adapter. You could then tee off the branch for the connection to the drip clock. Directly under the tee install a PVC ball shut off with a lever handle which you will place in the closed position and then remove the handle leaving the pipe permanently shut off from there to the deck. From the bottom of the tee you will run to the deck with a piece of PVC with a 3/4" male thread adapter which will then screw into a3/4" female floor flange. (See attachment). The top will be supported by the hook over the railing and the bottom will rest on the floor flange with no attachments to the walls. Sound like a plan? Tom

[Earle]

You're a friggen genius spedball! I never in a thousand years would have come up with a closed valve to make the bottom dry. But I did think of all kinds of things that wouldn't work. I haven't worked with Sched 80 pipe before. Is it that rigid?

I can't quite picture the supporting the upper half with ells. Can you elaborate?

BYW, I'm so happy about your valve solution! Thanks again.

Earle

[speedball1]

The upper part will consist of two elbos tied together with a short piece to make a hook. This hook will hook over the railings and terminate in a female hose thread adapter. Please excuse the lousey drawing. If there's anything that you don't understand click on back. Cheers, Tom

[dherman1]

To paint plastic, start with a thorough cleaning with lacquer thinner to remove any and all dirt, oils and vinyl dressings. The surface then needs to be roughed-up a bit with a scouring pad and some paint-prep gel, so the primer adheres properly. A special plastic primer is also required that has more flexing agents than conventional primer. This gives the coating a bit of “give” for covering pliable material.

Another consideration is to take the stuff to an automotive paint shop. They have the materials necessary to paint plastic. I used to work for a company that was in the aftermarket repair products and we sold to dealerships, repairshops, etc. One of the items was a primer that was wiped on a piece of flexible plastic. After wiping the surface, I would then spray paint it. I took another piece of the same plastic and just spraypainted it. Then I gave it to the shop guy and asked him to bend both pieces. The non prepped piece would flake and peal. The prepped piece would bend and not flake.

Good Luck,

Dan

[Earle]

Tom, Ok I finally got it. Thanks again.

Dan, That's the best description of how to paint PVC I've seen. Thanks.

Does lacquer thinner remove the blue printing? I've been told that will show if not removed. Is there a specific grade of scouring pad I should get? And is paint-prep-gel something I would get at Home Depot or Lowe's?

I'll also check with an auto paint shop to price painting the pipe. I only need 20' painted that way. The remainder is protected and won't flex.

Thanks,

Earle

[labman]

If you buy white PVC and use lacquer thinner to remove the markings it leaves it a nice white. I did that with the 6'' PVC I used as porch post in 1985. They still look as good as ever with no paint. No sense painting white pipe white. My pipes match all the other white vinyl on my house.

[Earle]

Have your columns powered at all? Everything I've read to date states UV rays make PVC power and become brittle. Brittle PVC and gale force wind is an unfortunate combination.