[bigmomma2]

Hello everyone;

I have no clue about plumbing but here is my problem anyway. I had a plumber to come to my home because I have a sump pump and another black box sit beside my sump pump. I have no clue what the black box is, however when we wash clothes, water comes out of the black box from the top as if the screws that hold the top down is off or perhaps broken.

Some time we have to jiggle the pipes for the black box to come on and dispense the water. We just installed a battery backup system because the power went out in the house, so the sump pump could not dispense the water, and the basement flooded. Now the plumber stated "We need an injector pump", but my house only have one bathroom upstairs. My basement is not finished, so I'm at a lost.

Can someone please advise as to what we need to do. Most gracious.

[doug238]

It sounds like the ejecter pump [sump pump] may have failed. It could fail because a breaker is off, it is unplugged, the float is stuck or malfunctioning, the pipe is disconnected from the pump, an object [like a sock or wash rag] is clogging the pump, the sump basin is not properly vented, or maybe the pump simply wore out. To change the pump takes anywhere from one hour up to 6 hours. Most take an hour and a half plus a pump costing about 250.00 to 300.00 for a home depot pump or 300.00 up to 700.00 for a great pump made of cast iron from a plumbing wholesaler.
As for why it is happening, the main line may be clogged and the overflow is going back into the sump basin.

[ballengerb1]

Doug may be a tad high on his pricing but his advice is correct.

[iamgrowler]

Doug may be a tad high on his pricing but his advice is correct.

>chuckles<

Sorry, but $700.00 (plus) sounds pretty darn cheap to a guy who has to warranty the system he installs.

Y'know, I think the biggest problem I have with yours and Tom's advice isn't so much the application as it is the aftermath.

Doug and I are still in business, not retired or indemnified from potential lawsuits as you and Tom are -- Meaning we have to temper our advice with the knowledge that some yutz may come along and sue our butts into the hereafter.

My longevity in the business has as much to do with my practical knowledge and skills as it does my instincts for survival.

[ballengerb1]

Not disagreeing with you one bit but when I try to help a home owner in a DYI I am not quoting a price for him to hire a plumber. I am quoting price for him to finish the DIY. Plus if the pump fails isn't the manufacturer standing behind the warranty? My thought that Doug was high on his pricing is more aligned with his statement " about 250.00 to 300.00 for a home depot pump " You can get a submersible for about $75 and I think you'd have to search for some gold plating to find a HD pump at $300.

[letmetellu]

I just purchased a Little Giant S 9 sump pump, and installed it for a customer, it was a very easy installation total time including the pick up time just over two hours. Total Bill including tax was $724.38.
Now this does nothing to help solve bigmomma2's problem.

[iamgrowler]

Not disagreeing with you one bit but when I try to help a home owner in a DYI I am not quoting a price for him to hire a plumber. I am quoting price for him to finish the DIY.

Perhaps it escaped your notice -- But the OP doesn't appear inclined to Do It Herself.

[doug238]

an ejector pump from home depot can be purchased for 75 bucks but that model can not be applied to a sewer situation, it is a seepage or storm water type pump. The pump home depot sells is weak at best and goes for 211.00 plus tax for the one that is for sewage ejection. It is very light in weight being made of plastic. The pro model I personally like is by zoellner. It is heavy, being made of cast iron and has a much stronger motor. The one I use will list for 455.00, and they carry models that are even better and more costly.
in calculating an install, I never carry a sump pump as normal stock. I go to the job, check it out to see what type application, rise, and voltage, and pipe size. There is chargeable time involved in retrieving a pump whether from a wholesaler or home depot, depending on the desire of the customer for quality and warranty and price. The actual time exchanging the pump will take a minimum of 1 hour on the easiest of changeouts including cleanup. On the more difficult changeouts it could take longer to travel a greater distance depending on the job location and type selected and the location of the sump basin and the configuration of the piping. I have changed some out in a closet only the size of the sump basin and the limited space slows the process down considerably. I take a bit longer, being very careful to not create a spill or odor problem for spills for the customer to have to have a professional cleaner come behind me. Reckless work is much faster but creates high probability for error and mess. A difficult changeout could easily take 6 hours, including travel time, estimating, and changeout. I charge 82.00 an hour and am time and material. A flat rate company will have a base rate of anywhere from 105.00 to 250.00 per hour, and in decent sized cities this is acceptable. I have low overhead so I can charge less. A company that is larger will have much higher overhead and can easily charge from a base rate of 150.00 per hour and barely break even. There are costly restrictions put on businesses which causes the cost of doing business to be very expensive. General liability is about 12 percent of payrolll, as also is workers comp. fuel costs and vehicle maintanance is another huge attack on the overhead. Basic office costs of space, personel, equipment, supplies, furniture, and utility bills create possibly the largest expense. And lest we forget, a basic business card size yellow page add is anywhere from 400.00 to 3,000.00 per month. And there may be other advertising costs in addition.
to put it more clearly, the person doing the job themselves is assuming a large risk of liability and as a business I have to cover that risk in all of the costs I mentioned plus training for me and employees. Because my rates are so low, if a customer complains about my price, I smile and walk away, realizing I am avoiding a problematic customer. I bring 34 years of experience to the table from me alone, plus my guys. Anyone that would deny me a profit of 20 percent of my labor and of my material is more than free to do it themselves. My guys bring added value to a customers home or business and is worthy of his hire.

[doug238]

[growler] Doug and I are still in business, not retired or indemnified from potential lawsuits as you and Tom are -- Meaning we have to temper our advice with the knowledge that some yutz may come along and sue our butts into the hereafter.

Fear not growler, any person giving advice in here can be held liable because of the assumption of liability by offering the assistance whether free or for hire.
For example, there was an individual that offered advice for a person not of the plumbing trade to rent a sewer machine and clear an outside main line. Had that person rented that machine lacking the training or skills to use a sewer machine and broken something in the line or the machine or even received a personal injury, that one advising the untrained to do the feat can be held liable because of the 'assumed knowledge' by offering the advice.
Those guys offering plumbing advice that are unskilled are at a much greater risk of liability than I am because of the advice that is in error.

[speedball1]

Y'know, I think the biggest problem I have with yours and Tom's advice isn't so much the application as it is the aftermath. Doug and I are still in business, not retired or indemnified from potential lawsuits as you and Tom are --

Does this mean that Bal and I can continue to dispense worthless amd misleading information in out posts while you and Doug must be "bang on" or get sued? Golly gee Growler! How fortunate we are to have you on this page to criticize and correct us ordinary mortals. Your attitude "It can't work if it ain't code" is refreshing to say the least. Too bad it doesn't play that way in the real world. Your post does nothing to address the OP's problem but it does a dandy job of "dissing" other experts,(Bal and myself.)
This is your second warning Steve. I consider you a good plunber and a valuable asset to this page but for the second time. DROP THE ATTITUDE!

[letmetellu]

[QUOTE=speedball1]Does this mean that Bal and I can continue to dispense worthless amd misleading information in out posts.
Doug 238 I don't know how you can let this one get by without some kind of remark.

[doug238]

letmetellu, I have come to know tom by watching him and I have a great respect for him. He is one of the plumbing industry's pioneers. He is a bit off on some of the new stuff but readily admits that. I will not disrespect someone I admire. I think you other guys that I have known for a bit that are also pioneering our industry are doing a good job in here, but when I was younger I was very hostile to other plumbers because I was better than anyone else. Then I realized how vain I was by bickering with the other guys, and some of them actually were better than me. Each of us has our strengths and weaknesses. Why don't we stick to our strengths. I don't post a lot in here much because I have so much going on but I do enjoy this site, and you know what? Don't tell anyone, but the great doug has even learned from being here. I have enough on my plate without poking at another brother in the trade.