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Capuchin · Nov 4, 2007, 05:39 PM

I hope nobody sees this as a baited question. I hope you all know me well enough to know that I'm just here as a genuinely interested party, wondering how certain inconsistancies (as I see them) are explained in religious creation.

If God is perfect, and God is eternal, why did he suddenly feel the need to create the universe 13 billion years ago, or 7000 years ago, or however long ago you believe it happened? Did he get bored or.. How does a perfect being get bored? Why create something in an already perfect universe? And if the universe was not already perfect, then why not create it at any point in the eternity beforehand?

I suspect the answer will be something to do with the "mysterious ways of God that us finite humans cannot possibly fathom", but I'd like your thoughts.

albear · Nov 4, 2007, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Capuchin

I hope nobody sees this as a baited question. I hope you all know me well enough to know that i'm just here as a genuinely interested party, wondering how certain inconsistancies (as I see them) are explained in religious creation.

If God is perfect, and God is eternal, why did he suddenly feel the need to create the universe 13 billion years ago, or 7000 years ago, or however long ago you believe it happened? Did he get bored or...? How does a perfect being get bored? Why create something in an already perfect universe? And if the universe was not already perfect, then why not create it at any point in the eternity beforehand?

I suspect the answer will be something to do with the "mysterious ways of God that us finite humans cannot possibly fathom", but I'd like your thoughts.

Everybody gets bored especially if there's nothing going on, wouldn't it be interesting if here in like a TV and gods just flicking through the channels,(until he finds scrubs) looking for something good that's on, lol

Wangdoodle · Nov 4, 2007, 08:43 PM

St. Bonaventure says that God created all things to show forth His glory and to communicate it. It is out of his love and goodness that creatures came into existence.

Theophilus of Antioch said: “And first, they [the prophets of God] taught us with one consent that God made all things out of nothing; for nothing was co-eternal with God: but he being his own place, and wanting nothing, and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom he might be known; for him [man], therefore, he prepared the world. For he that is created is also needy; but he that is uncreated stands in need of nothing"

I don't think it was out of boredom. Just that it was in the perfection of time that the Universe should be created.

kindj · Nov 5, 2007, 08:45 AM

I don't know.

How's that for an honest answer?

I have some speculations, though...

1. Time is apparently of no consequence or meaning to an eternal being. Who says God measures time the same way we do, or measures it at all? On the spiritual level, time itself may not even exist, or may be circular, or some other idea that the science fiction writers like to speculate on.

2. Just because God hasn't revealed what He was doing before He created our system of existence does not necessarily mean that He was idle. Who knows how many universes came before ours, and how many might come after? He hasn't seen a need to tell us what went on before and what will go on after.

Even though it's fun to think about, thinking about it too much makes my head hurt.

iAMfromHuntersBar · Nov 5, 2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Capuchin

Did he get bored or...?

Ha ha, brilliant question Capuchin!

I love the idea that all of a sudden he was bored... maybe he was bored of being perfect... so he just conjoured up the universe to amuse himself for a little while! :D

Maybe for him we're one of those annoyingly addictive flash games that I get hooked by for a little while! Maybe he'll tire of us soon! Who knows! Lol!

I'll be watching this one closely!

J

MoonlitWaves · Nov 5, 2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by kindj

I don't know.

How's that for an honest answer?

I have some speculations, though....

1. Time is apparently of no consequence or meaning to an eternal being. Who says God measures time the same way we do, or measures it at all? On the spiritual level, time itself may not even exist, or may be circular, or some other idea that the science fiction writers like to speculate on.

2. Just because God hasn't revealed what He was doing before He created our system of existence does not necessarily mean that He was idle. Who knows how many universes came before ours, and how many might come after? He hasn't seen a need to tell us what went on before and what will go on after.

Even though it's fun to think about, thinking about it too much makes my head hurt.

I like this answer.

I really don't think God was bored. Like you said capuchin, how does a perfect being get bored? I think it was simply because He wanted to. He wanted to have more people/spirits/souls/beings, whatever you would like to call it, with Him. Why do we write/create stories/peoms, create drawings, and other things we make/create? Sure it could be out of boredom, but more so it is because you want to and like to. I think God simply wanted to.

Freethinker · Nov 5, 2007, 06:42 PM

Realizing you are not "God" and therefore not eternal nor omniscient, the question is more :

"Who or what would not become bored after the already passed part of eternity"?

Of course an omniscient being would have known everything that there will ever be to know from the start (although an eternal being never made a start :D )

Which brings us to the following follow-up questions :

Why would an omniscient eternal being create a universe x years ago that is so full of imperfection?

Why would an omniscient eternal being create life (on earth or anywhere else) if that life is imperfect?

And how can an omniscient omni-benevolent perfect being create anything that itself is not perfect?

savedsinner7 · Nov 5, 2007, 09:10 PM

Have you read the Bible to see what God says about this? Seems like you're just looking for ways to prove your point and not really searching for the why of it all.

albear · Nov 6, 2007, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

I like this answer.

I really don't think God was bored. Like you said capuchin, how does a perfect being get bored? I think it was simply because He wanted to. He wanted to have more people/spirits/souls/beings, whatever you would like to call it, with Him. Why do we write/create stories/peoms, create drawings, and other things we make/create? Sure it could be out of boredom, but moreso it is because you want to and like to. I think God simply wanted to.

Yep god was lonely

Capuchin · Nov 6, 2007, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Have you read the Bible to see what God says about this? Seems like you're just looking for ways to prove your point and not really searching for the why of it all.

I don't know what I'm trying to prove but okay.. :o

Capuchin · Nov 6, 2007, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

I like this answer.

I really don't think God was bored. Like you said capuchin, how does a perfect being get bored? I think it was simply because He wanted to. He wanted to have more people/spirits/souls/beings, whatever you would like to call it, with Him. Why do we write/create stories/peoms, create drawings, and other things we make/create? Sure it could be out of boredom, but moreso it is because you want to and like to. I think God simply wanted to.

Why would a perfect God suddenly want something?

MoonlitWaves · Nov 6, 2007, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Capuchin

Why would a perfect God suddenly want something?

How do we know it was sudden?

iAMfromHuntersBar · Nov 6, 2007, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

How do we know it was sudden?

Well in the vast expanse of the infinate, ANYTHING is sudden! ;)

Capuchin · Nov 6, 2007, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

How do we know it was sudden?

If you're omnipotent, there's no advantage to doing anything slowly.

Soldout · Nov 6, 2007, 09:43 AM

God said "your ways are not My ways, and your thoughts are not My thoughts for as far as the heavens are from the earth so are my ways from your ways and My thoughts from yours" I think what you people are trying to do is put God in your little Human box. God is not a man, he is not limited by our thoughts of what we think He is. God does not use his fore knowledge to stop him from doing something. That's is why he sends His servants (Christians) to preach the Gospel to a lost person. He said go into ALL the world and Preach the Gospel. God has for knowledge on whether that person will receive Him or not but that does not stop him from giving that person the opportunity to receive him despite the fact that he knows the outcome.

ordinaryguy · Nov 6, 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Capuchin

I'd like your thoughts.

My thoughts are that the question "Why is there something rather than nothing?", is not so much unanswerable as it is uninteresting. Answers are a dime a dozen, ranging all the way from "No reason." to "Because God willed it." The thing they all have in common is that they are utterly immune to both logic and experiment as techniques for choosing one over the other. As far as I can tell, it's entirely a matter of aesthetic (or if you prefer, idealistic) preference. For me, personally, this isn't a problem, (my preference is somewhere in between) but neither does it engage my attention or stimulate my imagination in ways that seem creative and beneficial. Consequently, this brief paragraph is about all I can muster on the subject.

N0help4u · Nov 6, 2007, 10:22 AM

He wasn't bored, but he most likely wanted to amuse himself :D
Seriously, God is energy and creative so he wanted to use the energy and creativity and not let his talents go to waste:confused: :rolleyes: :eek:

MoonlitWaves · Nov 6, 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Soldout

God said "your ways are not My ways, and your thoughts are not My thoughts for as far as the heavens are from the earth so are my ways from your ways and My thoughts from yours" I think what you people are trying to do is put God in your little Human box. God is not a man, he is not limited by our thoughts of what we think He is. God does not use his fore knowlege to stop him from doing something. Thats is why he sends His servants (Christians) to preach the Gospel to a lost person. He said go into ALL the world and Preach the Gospel. God has for knowlege on wether that person will recieve Him or not but that does not stop him from giving that person the oppotunity to recieve him despite the fact that he knows the outcome.

This is true. Because our limits in understanding are human and imperfect limits trying to understand does tend to put Him in a "human box", but that's only because that is our limit. At the same time though, I don't think thinking about it is a bad thing. Though we know we cannot possibly understand with this mind I don't think it hurts anything by trying to imagine.

What I wonder is when we are of perfect mind, will He reveal to us all the answers to the now impossible questions?

kindj · Nov 6, 2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

What I wonder is when we are of perfect mind, will He reveal to us all the answers to the now impossible questions?

I don't know. I'd like to think that He won't simply reveal the answers, but will allow us to use our new perfect minds to discover the answers for ourselves. I think learning and discovery is much more fun than just absorbing.

savedsinner7 · Nov 6, 2007, 04:16 PM

Here's a website I found that helps with perspective on this.
Our identity as human beings