[talaniman]

traditional family values is a code word for I am right ,you are wrong.Take heed when you hear these words.They denote a person with very little tolerance for anyone or anything that's not like them.This form of bigotry has permeated all walks of american life in an effort to control and eliminate anything they think is wrong.They feel empowered to use institutions to further their control of anyone they consider to be outside the norm,many times they presume to be next to god to further their own ends.The result is I am right,you are wrong and must be punished or chastised,humiliated or sent packing.Its easy to see what they have done to the boyscouts in the name of family values.Young kids are learning to hate at an early age and decriminate against anything different than themselves. :cool:

[labman]

I don't have any illusions of changing anybody's mind on this, but do want to stand up and be counted. I think it is an outrageous, unconstitutional attack on the right to practice religion. The Boy Scouts have long stood for integrity, and we need more institutions to stand their ground. I am disgusted the way the Girl Scouts have caved into moral relativity.

[Fr_Chuck]

I guess if eveyone says it long enough and loud enough it will finally become the law, but there is no separation of church and state, not at least until the last years and the ACLU and their demoralising policies.

All the Constitition says is that the government can not pass laws "restricting" religion and not have a national religion. ( of course they were referring to denomination but did not say that)

The Courts have ruled against what the Constitituion really says, but their rulings have to stand "for now" hopefully we will get a court that will correct many of these errors that previous courts have made.

This is just proof that the government is making laws ( court interpertation of it) that is limiting our expression of religion by not allowing the scouts.

Sadly the those that do not wish to have morals and values in our nation have kidnaped the courts at this point. But I think it should be corrected if the majority of the American people have their say.

[fredg]

Ok, I apologize for misinterpreting your original remarks. I agree with you that the ACLU tries to have their lawsuits heard by judges they believe will be friendly to their cause. But that's not just restricted to the ACLU. Why do you think that Bush is trying to stack the Supreme Court? Any organizatin makes the same attempts. A judiciary is supposed to be impartial, judging only on the application of the law. That this doesn't always happen is obvious. Why should you vilify the ACLU for doing what anyone would do in the same circumstances?

Scott<>

Hey,
I accept your apology for misinterpreting my original remarks. It happens with us all; especially with something that is so controversial as changing American Traditions. Your last question is why this thread is so long... vilify?
The question will be here in America for quite some time; why should the majority of Americans vilify them? American morals, beliefs, and traditions are at stake. And so, I will stop going "round the mulberry bush". Changing the tune to "Bush stacking the Supreme Court" will not change the tune of the ACLU.

[fredg]

The majority of American people will have their say, eventually.

[ScottGem]

The Boy Scouts have long stood for integrity, and we need more institutions to stand their ground.

Excuse me, but how can an organization stand for integrity when it violates its own credo? The Girl Scouts didn't "cave", they stood up for their values of tolerance.

I point, again to my post analyzing the Boy Scout Oath. They are damed by their own words.

[ScottGem]

I guess if eveyone says it long enough and loud enough it will finally become the law, but there is no seperation of church and state, not atleast untill the last years and the ACLU and thier demoralising policies.

All the Constitition says is that the government can not pass laws "restricting" religion and not have a national religion. ( of course they were refering to denomination but did not say that)

The Courts have ruled agaisnt what the Constitituion really says, but thier rulings have to stand "for now" hopefully we will get a court that will correct many of these errors that previous courts have made.

This is just proof that the government is making laws ( court interpertation of it) that is limiting our expression of religion by not allowing the scouts.

Sadly the those that do not wish to have morals and values in our nation have kidnaped the courts at this point. But I think it should be corrected if the majority of the American people have thier say.

I find it interesting that you talk about repeating something often enough to make it true. That's what you seem to be doing. The doctrine of Separartion of Church and State exists. You can try to say it doesn't as much as you want, but the historical facts say you are wrong.

Scott<>

[ScottGem]

WHY on earth do list mormons with islamic extremist, druids, etc. Are you calling us mormons hypocrits? You are obviously insane and you are using the same generalizations that people like you say you despise. Good job, calling us mormons hypocrits basically destroyed any creditibility you had with me.

You have posted a lot of emotional arguments that don't jive with the facts. But this just seems to be a paranoid and hysterical reaction. I don't read anything into Tom's post that justifies your reaction. Up to this point, while this discussion has been heated, it has remained civil. You stepped over the line with a personal attack that was totally unjustified.

Scott<>

[ScottGem]

Hey,
I accept your apology for misinterpreting my original remarks. It happens with us all; especially with something that is so controversial as changing American Traditions. Your last question is why this thread is so long....vilify??
The question will be here in America for quite some time; why should the majority of Americans vilify them? American morals, beliefs, and traditions are at stake. And so, I will stop going "round the mulberry bush". Changing the tune to "Bush stacking the Supreme Court" will not change the tune of the ACLU.

I'm not changing any tune. And who says that a "majority of Americans vilify them"?

You posted a note attacking the ACLU for bringing their cases before judges they expected to be friendly to their cause. That part I didn't misinterpret. My point is that the ACLU is not alone in that practice. It is a common and logical practice. It is practiced by other groups with an agenda the opposite of the ACLU. So to vilify them for a common practice is hypocrisy.

I do agree that American morals, beliefs and traditions are at stake here. But I believe the ACLU is trying to preserve them against people, like you, who seek to impose their own morals, beliefs and traditions on others simply because they are in the minority.

The fact is that America was founded on INDIVIDUAL freedoms, not on the will of the majority.

Scott<>

[SSchultz0956]

You have posted a lot of emotional arguments that don't jive with the facts. But this just seems to be a paranoid and hysterical reaction. I don't read anything into Tom's post that justifies your reaction. Up to this point, while this discussion has been heated, it has remained civil. You stepped over the line with a personal attack that was totally unjustified.

Scott<>

I would agree, it was irrational. I had a very long weekend and it's very easy to vent on line, especially in this forum. My apologies speedy.

[talaniman]

Here I go again.My apologys in advanced ,any thing to do with kids and there welfare makes me a little emotional.ANYONE WHO TEACHES A CHILD HATRED, INTOLERANCE AND BIGOTRY IS IN MY BOOK GUILTY OF CHILD ABUSE!! that's it, plain and simple.Its enough the adults are deranged bigots, why do the children have to suffer.Back in the day the boy scouts were a noble endeavor that brought pride and integrity to the neighborhood.They were widely supported by all.Now they are pawns in a politically stupid society that has forgotten KIDS COME FIRST!! If I could I would have called "protective services" a long time ago.The next time I hear family values they better have a list or... :confused: :eek: :p :rolleyes: :(

[s_cianci]

Unfortunately, a lot of other institutions have likewise caved in to moral relativity. The more this happens, the faster our downfall will be.

[speedball1]

"I had a very long weekend and it's very easy to vent on line, especially in this forum. My apologies speedy."

No apologies necessary SS. And just to clear matters up.
(Question 1: What do Mormons, Islamic extremists, Scientologists, Druids and hypocrites all have in common?

Answer: They can all join the Scout Association – but humanists,(Atheists) can’t.)
Was a copy and paste job off a article I found on the internet. Any religious slur was unintended and I certainly didn't mean to link Mormonism with Islamic extreamists which are indeed linked to terrorism. I should have edited that out so I might owe you a few apologies. Have a great thanksgiving, Tom

[labman]

Here I go again.My apologys in advanced ,any thing to do with kids and there welfare makes me a little emotional.ANYONE WHO TEACHES A CHILD HATRED, INTOLERANCE AND BIGOTRY IS IN MY BOOK GUILTY OF CHILD ABUSE!!!thats it, plain and simple.Its enough the adults are deranged bigots, why do the children have to suffer.Back in the day the boy scouts were a noble endeavor that brought pride and integrity to the neighborhood.They were widely supported by all.Now they are pawns in a politically stupid society that has forgotten KIDS COME FIRST!!!If I could I would have called "protective services" a long time ago.The next time I hear family values they better have a list or............................................ :confused: :eek: :p :rolleyes: :(

I am sick of hateful, intolerant attacks on Christians, the Boy Scouts, and anyone else that dissents from homosexuality being normal and an acceptable life style. Fortunately the constitution protects our rights to practice our religion and say what we believe.

[s_cianci]

Well said, my friend!