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Tim Nyander · Oct 27, 2007, 01:19 PM

I am trying to determine who is at fault in the following accident. I was approaching a 4-way stop, and was going to turn left. There was a left turn lane available. A motorcyle behind me was also going to turn left. The motorcylce behind me got into the left turn lane before me. With my turn signal on, I turned into the left turn lane. The motorcycle behind me had to lay the bike on its side to avoid hitting me in the rear. The vehicles did not ever come into contact with each other.

Am I liable for the damage to the motorcycle or injuries to the biker?

excon · Oct 27, 2007, 04:12 PM

Hello Tim:

You are. Even if he sped up and got there first, YOU are required to make sure the lane is clear before you move into it. You didn't.

excon

Fr_Chuck · Oct 27, 2007, 07:57 PM

Yes, you would be guilty of improper lane change or failure to yield right of way. Since he was already in the lane behind you, you can not go over into the lane until it is clear to do so.

Tim Nyander · Oct 29, 2007, 06:14 AM

Thanks all for answering. Here is a modified question.
I am approaching a 4-way stop with a left turn lane. I signal, move into the left-turn lane, and am the 1st vehicle at the intersection. After I am stopped, I look into my rear view mirror and see a motorcycle sliding on the pavement.

I get out to see if the biker is okay, not thinking that I am in any way responsible. He is angry and says I "cut him off." The City police arrive and the officer responding lights a cigarette for him and offers him a soft drink.(?? ) Turns out he is an off-duty police officer in this city.

The officer does not take a statement from me, but takes one from the biker. I get a ticket for failure to yield. By signing the ticket the officer tells me that I am not admitting guilt just that I agree to show up for court.

I do not believe that I had anything to do woth the accident. I think the bike was going too fast and couldn't stop in time. In fact I think that I could have just drove away if I wasn't concerned about the health of the biker.

I think I am going to get stuck with the repairs on the very expensive motorcycle. If it is my word against theirs, I will lose. I just wanted somebodys opinion as to what my chances are if I get a lawyer. What angle should take?

Thanks

Emland · Oct 29, 2007, 06:17 AM

Are there traffic cameras at this intersection? I suppose an attorney could supoena them.

Without witnesses, it is going to be your word against the motocycles driver. With him being a cop, that isn't going to help you any.

Things like how far he slid will determine how fast he was going. Is any of that documented?

Tim Nyander · Oct 29, 2007, 06:27 AM

We took video of where the motorcycle skidded on pavement. It shows skidding in the left turn lane about 100 ft behind where the car was stopped. No cameras at intersection.

excon · Oct 29, 2007, 06:55 AM

Hello again, Tim:

My advice was based upon UNKNOWN information. In fact, you don't know the relevant facts either.

What none of us knows is how far behind you the motorcycle was BEFORE you changed lanes. I assumed that HE was TOO close and that you cut him off. THAT, however, isn't a foregone conclusion.

The cop absolutely may have been speeding. Or at least he sped up to get into the turn lane. I've seen it happen a million times. I've probably done it a few times myself.

However, because this was a cop, and he had all his cop buddies there, and I'll bet he urged his cop buddies to give you a ticket, I think you should fight it.

They key question I have, is did the cops treat the motorcycle rider like a victim or like a cop? THAT is a KEY legal difference. I think you should hire a lawyer and kick the cops butt.

excon

JudyKayTee · Oct 29, 2007, 12:28 PM

I can only answer for NYS - I am a liability investigator. That being said your initial post says that "the motorcycle got into the left turn lane before [you]. With [your] turn signal on [you] turned into the left lane. The motorcycle behind [you] HAD TO LAY THE BIKE ON ITS SIDE TO AVOID HITTING [you] in the rear. The vehicles did not ever come into contact... " You acknowledge in these words that the motorcycle could not avoid you; therefore, whether he was or was not speeding you saw him in advance of your turn and you turned anyway.

The follow up post says you are approaching the 4-way stop, you signal and move into the left-turn lane, are the first vehicle, are stopped, looked in your rear view mirror and see a motorcycle sliding on the pavement.

It can't be both ways.

In theory the fact that the motorcyclist was an off-duty Police Officer should not matter but we know it does. However, it does sound like you cut him off.

If this were mine to investigate I would focus on where you were when you saw the motorcyclist in the turn lane, how long that turn lane is, where you were when you pulled into the turn lane. Those lanes are usually fairly short and it would appear on the face that you did cut him off - if he was already in the lane very possibly you should have slowed down and cut in behind him, not in front of him, because he already "owned the lane."

And, yes, signing the ticket does not admit guilt.

Sorry -

Fr_Chuck · Oct 29, 2007, 05:50 PM

Proving it will be an issue, if this is a police officer his word in court will be taken at a higher level then yours, ( sorry but it works that way)

I would basically see about pleading nolo to the ticket if you don't hire an attorney ( I would hire an attorney) and leave the civil issues up to your insurance company.

famlee · Oct 31, 2007, 04:23 PM

Did you get into the turn lane as soon as it started or closer to the intersection? Hope I am asking that correctly. If you got in the turn lane as soon as it started, then he couldn't have been in it before you. However, I have seen people approaching an intersection and if there is a line of cars in the "straight" lane, they will go around the line and get in the short turn lane instead of waiting until they get up to where the turn lane actually starts at. Motorcycles do this more often it seems because they are smaller and its easy to get up there. I almost had a wreck not too long ago this very way. I was in the straight lane with signal on waiting for the line to shorten so I could get up to where the turn lane started at and when I was about to enter turn lane, another car who was bypassing the waiting vehicles came up and nearly hit me. I feel I should have had the right away, since that vehicle was not really in any lane.

Now, if I had bypassed the start of the turn lane and entered the lane further up, then the other car would clearly have had the right away as in any lane change.

However, as another person said... your insurance will take statements from everyone and your insurance adjustor will be the one to decide. Unless you are not filing with insurance and paying on your own.

JudyKayTee · Nov 1, 2007, 08:09 AM

He said the motorcycle entered the lane before he did - even if the motorcycle went over the yellow lines and entered the turn lane illegally if it was in the legal portion when the accident took place and the driver of the car KNEW it was there the driver of the car is responsible.

Your scenario - which happens frequently - of drivers "forcing" the left hand turn lane (by entering it over yellow lines) and then striking cars entering the left turn lane legally depends on whether it is determined the driver of the car entering legally should have seen the car that forced the turn lane.

I can only speak for NYS (as I have said) but this is a comparative negligence State and the drivers are "usually" found 50/50 liable - you are still expected to check before changing lanes to make certain that lane is clear.