[deist]

How do christians explain Jesus' failed prophecies ? Here are only two among several.
Matthew 10:23, Jesus told his disciples that he would return before they could go over all the cities of Israel with the gospel. The gospel has since been preached all throughout Israel, & continues to be so with christian television now, & still Jesus hasn't returned.
Mark 14:62, Jesus told the high priest that he would live to see Jesus' second coming. Of course the high priest died before Jesus returned.
So there is two false prophecies made by Jesus. Any explanations ?

[RickJ]

Incorrect. Matthew 10:23 says "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes"

...note the word not.

Mark 14:62

"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

... does not say anything about when.

[RickJ]

I clarify on the first one. We would argue here that Christ did "come" before they were done. He returned from the dead.

[deist]

I clarify on the first one. We would argue here that Christ did "come" before they were done. He returned from the dead.

Poor answer on both counts. Jesus didn't say the disciples would not go over the cities of Israel before he rose, but before he would come. And as to Mark 14:62 Jesus told the high priest you shall see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power & coming in the clouds. The high priest did not see this in his lifetime. You're reaching.

[Wondergirl]

Matthew 10:23 --

NT prophecy ("eschatology") is predominantly preterist, i.e. fulfilled completely in the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70. (spiritual "coming"). In other words, not all "coming" passages are physical ones, i.e. refer to Christ's coming. This is a spiritual one.

Jesus is saying that he will come in judgment on the Jews when Jerusalem and the temple are destroyed in A.D. 70

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, just as with the priests of Jesus days, they are blind to the truth and don't want to see Jesus as who he is,

[Tj3]

Matthew 10:23, Jesus told his disciples that he would return before they could go over all the cities of Israel with the gospel. The gospel has since been preached all throughout Israel, & continues to be so with christian television now, & still Jesus hasn't returned.

Verse 22 says that when they persecute them in one city they should flee to another and that that will not have gone over all the cities of Israel until the Son of man come. This is in the context of persecution, not in the context of spreading the gospel. When does this occur? We have some indication if we look earlier in the same section of the chapter:

Matt 10:16-23
16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
NKJV

This did not happen to the apostles. None of this happened at that point in time. These things did happen to Jesus but not to the apostles. What we see in this passage is an indication of the persecution to come upon the believers in the last days.

Mark 14:62, Jesus told the high priest that he would live to see Jesus' second coming. Of course the high priest died before Jesus returned. So there is two false prophecies made by Jesus. Any explanations ?

You added to this. Where did Jesus says that the high priest would personally live that long?

Mark 14:62-63
62 And Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
NKJV

Look at this prophecy of the same event.

Rev 1:7-8
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
NKJV

When this happens in the future, even those who pierced Him will see it. Nothing says that they need to be alive at the time. Every eye will see it.

Usually I do not respond to these because what I have found is that those who post these have found a long list on internet sites of supposed problems in the Bible, and usually, just like these, it is as easy as reading a few lines on one side or the other, or simply reading the context.

[Choux]

It is obvious from reading and rereading the New Testament(and reading Biblical scholar's work) that it has been altered many times due to the many contradictions and forgeries. There appears to be passages that have one kind of "Jesus" speaking totally contradictary to what another kind of Jesus speaks and stands for.

Briefly, one "Jesus", as described in the Bible, was a man who believed that he would return from the dead rather immediately and establish a his Kingdom on earth. Of course, that didn't happen.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, I will agree that almost all of the early chistians beleiveed that he would come soon, just as the next and the next and the next generation.
Even today, our TV preachers have him coming back any day now.

WWI was the coming, then it was the a bomb, they it was social security numbers that was the sign of his coming. Each generation has its own. Christ has his own time as God does, we look at how many generations his people were slaves in Egypt before they were freed. And how long it was before Christ was sent

[Tj3]

It is obvious from reading and rereading the New Testament(and reading Biblical scholar's work) that it has been altered many times due to the many contradictions and forgeries.

Many such claims are made, but I for one have yet to see evidence of a forgery or a contradiction.

PS to Choux's comment: Choux, I have studied the so-called contradictions, and have studied the history of how the Bible came to be, the history of the manuscripts, and the claims of changes. That is why I commented.

[fallen2grace]

Yup

[Fr_Chuck]

It is not normally forgeries, more than people not understanding what a ancient writer was meaning, the post yesterday about the "eye of a needle" is a good example, people now adays think sewing needle, not a gate in the wall of the city.

I often go back to early greek on the NT, where one can debate meanings, and also reference it to various study guiles

[deist]

Verse 22 says that when they persecute them in one city they should flee to another and that that will not have gone over all the cities of Israel until the Son of man come. This is in the context of persecution, not in the context of spreading the gospel. When does this occur? We have some indication if we look earlier in the same section of the chapter:

Matt 10:16-23
16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. 21 Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
NKJV

This did not happen to the apostles. None of this happened at that point in time. These things did happen to Jesus but not to the apostles. What we see in this passage is an indication of the persecution to come upon the believers in the last days.



You added to this. Where did Jesus says that the high priest would personally live that long?

Mark 14:62-63
62 And Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
NKJV

Look at this prophecy of the same event.

Rev 1:7-8
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
NKJV

When this happens in the future, even those who pierced Him will see it. Nothing says that they need to be alive at the time. Every eye will see it.

Usually I do not respond to these because what I have found is that those who post these have found a long list on internet sites of supposed problems in the Bible, and usually, just like these, it is as easy as reading a few lines on one side or the other, or simply reading the context.

All premillennial fundamentalist christians today distinguish two resurrections separated by a period of a thousand years, the first at the rapture for the righteous, the second at the great white throne following the destruction of the earth for the unrighteous. Only the righteous, living & dead, at the time of the second coming will Jesus coming in the clouds. The unrighteous dead will not see it, for they remain dead until the judgment of the great white throne. Therefore the high priest will not see Jesus coming in the clouds, yet Jesus told the high priest he would see it. The high priest, of course, did not see it as Jesus prophesied.

[deist]

Matthew 10:23 --

NT prophecy ("eschatology") is predominantly preterist, i.e., fulfilled completely in the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70. (spiritual "coming"). In other words, not all "coming" passages are physical ones, i.e., refer to Christ's coming. This is a spiritual one.

Jesus is saying that he will come in judgment on the Jews when Jerusalem and the temple are destroyed in A.D. 70

The fact remains, Jesus told the high priest he would see Jesus coming in the clouds. He didn't say to the high priest you will see Jerusalem surrounded by the armies of Rome, but you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven. There is nothing spiritual about that. Jesus meant the high priest would literally see him coming in the clouds. But this did not happen as Jesus prophesied.

[firmbeliever]

The fact remains, Jesus told the high priest he would see Jesus coming in the clouds. He didn't say to the high priest you will see Jerusalem surrounded by the armies of Rome, but you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven. There is nothing spiritual about that. Jesus meant the high priest would literally see him coming in the clouds. But this did not happen as Jesus prophesied.

Just wondering,
Could this mean the coming of Jesus(alaihi salaam)near the end of the world?

[Tj3]

All premillennial fundamentalist christians today distinguish two resurrections separated by a period of a thousand years, the first at the rapture for the righteous, the second at the great white throne following the destruction of the earth for the unrighteous. Only the righteous, living & dead, at the time of the second coming will Jesus coming in the clouds. The unrighteous dead will not see it, for they remain dead until the judgment of the great white throne. Therefore the high priest will not see Jesus coming in the clouds, yet Jesus told the high priest he would see it. The high priest, of course, did not see it as Jesus prophesied.

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it has been skewed. The Bible (specifically the Book of Reveleation) does speak of the two resurrections, but again you make the assumption that only those who are alive at the time will see it happen. Scripture says that every eye will see it. It does not say only those living on the earth at the time.

A similar prophecy speaks of every knee bowing at the name of Christ, and it too clearly not just refer to those who are alive on earth at the time of the event.
Phil 2:9-11
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NKJV

[Tj3]

Just wondering,
could this mean the coming of Jesus(alaihi salaam)near the end of the world?

It does in fact refer to the second coming of Christ.

Mark 13:24-27
24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
NKJV

Dan 7:13-14
13 "I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
NKJV

[mountain_man]

The fact remains, Jesus told the high priest he would see Jesus coming in the clouds. He didn't say to the high priest you will see Jerusalem surrounded by the armies of Rome, but you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven. There is nothing spiritual about that. Jesus meant the high priest would literally see him coming in the clouds. But this did not happen as Jesus prophesied.

What is your goal of posting this question, to gain a better understanding or answer, or just to "stir up the pot" On a separate post you clearly indicated that you do not believe in God. I am confident that every Christian would and could defend their faith and has already done an excellent job! If you are questioning your beliefs than be open to the other side and take it into consideration. If you are just here to stir things up than I think we all (defenders of our faith) need to be cautious.

[deist]

What is your goal of posting this question, to gain a better understanding or answer, or just to "stir up the pot" On a seperate post you clearly indicated that you do not believe in God. I am confident that every Christian would and could defend their faith and has already done an excellent job! If you are questioning your beliefs than be open to the other side and take it into consideration. If you are just here to stir things up than I think we all (defenders of our faith) need to be cautious.

You're wrong about me not believing in God. I am a deist, & deists believe in God, just not your evil bible god.

[mountain_man]

You're wrong about me not believing in God. I am a deist, & deists believe in God, just not your evil bible god.

If you don't believe in the so called "evil bible God" than why are you even asking questions about the Bible, Jesus, and prophesies?