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    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #81

    Sep 28, 2007, 03:38 PM
    Then again lets look at this from a scientific angle...
    Evolution, for some reason, we developed an almost perfect means of storage of information.. hmm.. yes, For another awkward reason this information seemed to pop at once! YOu say no? Okay, have you ever wondered what would happen if you didn't have... like 2 essential amino acids codes in your DNA code? Have you ever wondered why pple get sick when they can't manufacture essential proteins? NOW... stick with me here okay?
    Now imagine your whole body is made of protein? Done that...
    Okay, now imagine if there was ever a human being without eyes? No sockets no mouth? You can't? Well me too :) What about a human with gills? Okay then lets go micro
    A human without insulin? Oh that you can... lol... how about epinephrine? Blood? White blood cells? Osteocytes or bone? Neuron tissue? Hahahaha...
    Ask me again why I doubt evolution and I'll just laugh!
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #82

    Sep 28, 2007, 03:50 PM
    Evolution; "A childs attempt to complete a puzzle at the beggining and end with no clue if the pieces are from the same board"
    Oh how I love me proffesors. Hahahahahaha
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #83

    Sep 28, 2007, 03:50 PM
    Nigel,
    I am laughing.. but it's in regards to your post. I can't figure out your reasoning, you're all over the map. Is it some form of parable?
    Are you laughing because you can't understand stuff? Are you laughing at your lack of education?
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #84

    Sep 28, 2007, 03:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Nigel,
    I am laughing..but it's in regards to your post. I can't figure out your reasoning, you're all over the map. Is it some form of parable?
    Are you laughing because you can't understand stuff? Are you laughing at your lack of education?

    No am laughing because ave never seen a human fossil without a set of eyes! Hahaha... or maybe wings.. woot! Though thanks einstein for the heads up:)
    StuMegu's Avatar
    StuMegu Posts: 576, Reputation: 64
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    #85

    Sep 29, 2007, 04:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel5
    No am laughing because ave never seen a human fossil without a set of eyes! hahaha...or maybe wings..woot! Though thanks einstein for the heads up:)
    Hi Nigel, thanks for the laugh!

    Why do we look so similar to other monkeys? Can you explain god's reason for doing that?
    jillianleab's Avatar
    jillianleab Posts: 1,194, Reputation: 279
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    #86

    Sep 29, 2007, 12:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel5
    No am laughing because ave never seen a human fossil without a set of eyes! Hahaha... or maybe wings.. woot! Though thanks einstein for the heads up:)
    You need a science book. A real science book, not a "science" book from whatever fundie school you apparently go to...

    OKay, I am a christian but I won't speak for other christians here. We as christians are taught to refrain from looking at anything contradictory to what we believe in... I know, this sounds ignorant and in this scientific age down right laughable, but understand this... FAITH is based on undeniable belief in something on our case Jesus as the messiah and the son of God.
    See, here's why that makes no sense - if your faith is SO STRONG, why the big no no to looking at things which might contradict what you believe in? Is it because looking at something contrary to your belief might shake your faith? If reading one science text, or one article, or studying one non-christian subject is all it takes to shake your belief, perhaps it's not as strong as you think it is.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #87

    Sep 29, 2007, 01:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by deist
    I doubt you have read anything quite like God versus the bible. It's not anti-God, it is just anti-bible.
    The anti-bible page I linked to asks the same questions. It's old news to me.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #88

    Sep 29, 2007, 04:25 PM
    If it is anti bible, it is anti God, the plain fact is too much of the evolution ideas are just beleifs, with little facts of their own, We know minor evolution or changes happen esp with the help of man and science today,
    But come on, the oak tree, the redwood tree, the fish, the monkey and man, all evolved from the same life form that was started in some ancient swamp ( and not to even ask where all of that material came from)

    I just have to laugh at anyone that can be silly enough to believe all life animal and plant came from one cell that was puffed into being alive.
    That to me is the most silly thought of anything I could even think of.
    And you say creation is a streach of belief, get real.
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #89

    Sep 29, 2007, 05:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jillianleab
    You need a science book. A real science book, not a "science" book from whatever fundie school you apparently go to...


    See, here's why that makes no sense - if your faith is SO STRONG, why the big no no to looking at things which might contradict what you believe in? Is it because looking at something contrary to your belief might shake your faith? If reading one science text, or one article, or studying one non-christian subject is all it takes to shake your belief, perhaps it's not as strong as you think it is.
    Real science book?Since you study the real science book give me one connection between species? Just one. You say they evolved gradualy from a single celled prokrayotic cell to a multi cellular organism right?
    IF so, tell me...
    1) How did our DNA come about? Did we mutate in an instant to our present genetic make up? If not, how did previous species survive without a full human genome?
    2) Explain to me how anaerobic species finally accommodated oxygen?
    3) Explain to me, why until now haven't we found even a single thread of evidence (tangible) connection between reptile and mammals or between humans and any other animal kingdom? Where did we come from? How did we come to be?
    4) What is the universe? Where did that BIg cloud of dust come from that expanded exponentially? Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed where did this energy come from?
    5) Why ohhh why? Haven't we been able to create even one single workable cell? Is nature that good at this so called survival of the fittest escapade? And if so why aren't others forming as we speak? And in that case, how does survival of the fittest concept affect your genetic make up?


    These questions are not meant to strengthen one side of this argument.. which christian belief and why we don't question them... but rather to prove both side of this so called argument are flawed. Since you say fundies are uneducated talk to me.
    See, here's why that makes no sense - if your faith is SO STRONG, why the big no no to looking at things which might contradict what you believe in? Is it because looking at something contrary to your belief might shake your faith? If reading one science text, or one article, or studying one non-christian subject is all it takes to shake your belief, perhaps it's not as strong as you think it is

    "faith is the belief in things not seen" ~ I cannot sit here and argue with you about what my faith is, its not logical. But I can argue about why I have faith. Two different things. You keep on saying scientific text, give me a scientific explanation why God doesn't exist? And I'll give you a scientific explainstion of what faith is :)
    jillianleab's Avatar
    jillianleab Posts: 1,194, Reputation: 279
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    #90

    Sep 29, 2007, 07:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel5
    Real science book?Since you study the real science book give me one connection between species? Just one. You say they evolved gradualy from a single celled prokrayotic cell to a multi cellular organism right?
    IF so, tell me...........
    1) How did our DNA come about? Did we mutate in an instant to our present genetic make up? If not, how did previous species survive without a full human genome?
    2) Explain to me how anaerobic species finaly accomodated oxygen?
    3) Explain to me, why until now havent we found even a single thread of evidence (tangible) connection between reptile and mammals or between humans and any other animal kingdom? Where did we come from? How did we come to be?
    4) What is the universe? Where did that BIg cloud of dust come from that expanded exponentially? Since energy cannot be created nor destroyed where did this energy come from?
    5) Why ohhh why? havent we been able to create even one single workable cell? Is nature that good at this so called survival of the fittest escapade? And if so why aren't others forming as we speak? And in that case, how does survival of the fittest concept affect your genetic make up?


    These questions are not meant to strengthen one side of this argument..which christian belief and why we dont question them.....but rather to proove both side of this so called argument are flawed. Since you say fundies are uneducated talk to me.
    See, here's why that makes no sense - if your faith is SO STRONG, why the big no no to looking at things which might contradict what you believe in? Is it because looking at something contrary to your belief might shake your faith? If reading one science text, or one article, or studying one non-christian subject is all it takes to shake your belief, perhaps it's not as strong as you think it is

    "faith is the belief in things not seen" ~ I cannot sit here and argue with you about what my faith is, its not logical. But i can argue about why i have faith. Two different things. You keep on saying scientific text, give me a scientific explanation why God doesn't exist? And i'll give you a scientific explainstion of what faith is :)
    Some of your questions have answers, some don't. Some things science can currently explain, others it can't. Just because your answer to every question possible is, "god did it" doesn't mean you're right. But to tell you the truth, I don't care if your answer is "god did it". Have fun with that. I'm happy with my answer, "what science doesn't know, it will continue asking until it finds out." PS - your questions just scream you know nothing about the scientific method.

    Oh, and I never said fundies were uneducated. I just said you needed to pick up a science book, not a "science" book.

    You don't have to argue your faith to me, I never asked you to. But thanks for admitting it's not logical! I have no interest in "converting" you to a doubter or non-believer or anything of the sort - I'm simply wondering WHY if your faith is SO STRONG it's such a problem to read about things which contradict the bible. Knowledge is power, you know. Learning about other people, other faiths, other socioeconomic backgrounds, etc makes you a better person. You don't have to suspend your belief in god to read an issue of Scientific American, and reading such things will not corrupt you and turn you into an atheist, if, as you say, your faith is strong. I can read the bible without becoming a christian, can you not read the Qu'ran without becoming Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by FR_Chuck
    I just have to laugh at anyone that can be silly enough to beleive all life animal and plant came from one cell that was puffed into being alive.
    That to me is the most silly thought of anything I could even think of.
    And you say creation is a streach of beleif, get real.
    And it's not silly to think everyone descended from two naked people in a garden? Or that dinosaur bones were put here by the devil to "test us" (don't know for what, but test us), and that the entire earth was flooded and some dude built a ship to house every animal in the world (two)? And that's not even getting to the talking snakes and unicorns... Oh wait, I forgot... god did it.
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #91

    Sep 29, 2007, 08:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jillianleab
    Some of your questions have answers, some don't. Some things science can currently explain, others it can't. Just because your answer to every question possible is, "god did it" doesn't mean you're right. But to tell you the truth, I don't care if your answer is "god did it". Have fun with that. I'm happy with my answer, "what science doesn't know, it will continue asking until it finds out." PS - your questions just scream you know nothing about the scientific method.

    Oh, and I never said fundies were uneducated. I just said you needed to pick up a science book, not a "science" book.

    You don't have to argue your faith to me, I never asked you to. But thanks for admitting it's not logical! I have no interest in "converting" you to a doubter or non-believer or anything of the sort - I'm simply wondering WHY if your faith is SO STRONG it's such a problem to read about things which contradict the bible. Knowledge is power, you know. Learning about other people, other faiths, other socioeconomic backgrounds, etc makes you a better person. You don't have to suspend your belief in god to read an issue of Scientific American, and reading such things will not corrupt you and turn you into an atheist, if, as you say, your faith is strong. I can read the bible without becoming a christian, can you not read the Qu'ran without becoming Muslim?



    And it's not silly to think everyone descended from two naked people in a garden? Or that dinosaur bones were put here by the devil to "test us" (don't know for what, but test us), and that the entire earth was flooded and some dude built a ship to house every animal in the world (two)? And that's not even getting to the talking snakes and unicorns.... Oh wait, I forgot... god did it.

    Hahaha... "ignorance in the name of science doesn't justify lack of evidence"
    The mere fact that you keep on mentioning I have no clue about theories of evolution that exist suprises me. And again you say I claim God did this and that, while in all of my questions I have clearly stuck to scientific and "logical" statements.

    And trust me, Its more logical to believe you were created by a being far superior than you than to believe you formed from a single celled algae via series of accidents coined up by the term "EVOLUTION"

    This so called evolution, gave you a symmetrical body, a single skull , cavities, organs lined by membranes, a brain that has billions of neurons with specific functions. And above all the ability to reproduce. Yes, its easier to believe in evolution... NOT! Rofl
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #92

    Sep 29, 2007, 08:17 PM
    So all in all I can confidently say anyone who doubts the existence of God because of science's lack of evidence is the same as another who believes in his existence because of science's failure to disapprove it. Truth be told, we are all fundies for one thing or the other. *scratches head in disbelief* LOL
    nigel5's Avatar
    nigel5 Posts: 64, Reputation: -2
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    #93

    Sep 29, 2007, 08:20 PM
    Oh wait, ave been tossing a coin around for an hour now, and its landed on tails every... single... time :(
    Hahahahahahahaha
    StuMegu's Avatar
    StuMegu Posts: 576, Reputation: 64
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    #94

    Sep 30, 2007, 03:03 AM
    How old is the universe according to the bible?
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #95

    Sep 30, 2007, 04:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel5
    Oh wait, ave been tossing a coin around for an hour now, and its landed on tails every...single......time :(
    hahahahahahahaha
    Did God do it?
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
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    #96

    Sep 30, 2007, 07:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
    If it is anti bible, it is anti God, the plain fact is too much of the evolution ideas are just beleifs, with little facts of thier own, We know minor evolution or changes happen esp with the help of man and science today,
    But come on, the oak tree, the redwood tree, the fish, the monkey and man, all evolved from the same life form that was started in some ancient swamp ( and not to even ask where all of that material came from)

    I just have to laugh at anyone that can be silly enough to beleive all life animal and plant came from one cell that was puffed into being alive.
    That to me is the most silly thought of anything I could even think of.
    And you say creation is a streach of beleif, get real.
    There is a new book out which describes once again the scientific evidence against macro-evolution. It is "The Edge of Evolution" By Michael Behe, a leading scientist in the field. He is not, a creationist, but the book is of great value in demonstrating from scientific viewpoint, based upon the latest research findings, that macro-evolution is not possible.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #97

    Sep 30, 2007, 07:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3
    By Michael Behe, a leading scientist in the field.
    Not really. Even the university that employs him stears clear of him:
    Due to Behe's views on evolution, Lehigh University exhibits the following disclaimer on its website: “ While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally and should not be regarded as scientific.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
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    #98

    Sep 30, 2007, 08:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Not really. Even the university that employs him stears clear of him:
    You make too many assumptions. It did not say that they steer clear of him, nor did it say that they in any way take away from his credibility or recognition. What they did say is that they are not taking a stand on his conclusion, which is "Intelligent Design" (not the same as creationism, BTW). That is considerable different than what you implied.

    Have a gander at this:


    Michael Behe

    Michael J. Behe was graduated from Drexel University in 1974 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Chemistry. He did his graduate studies in biochemistry at the University of Pennsylvania and was awarded the Ph.D. in 1978 for his dissertation research on sickle-cell disease. From 1978-1982 he did postdoctoral work on DNA structure at the National Institutes of Health. From 1982-85 he was Assistant Professor of Chemistry at Queens College in New York City, where he met his wife. In 1985 he moved to Lehigh University where he is currently Professor of Biochemistry. In his career he has authored over 40 technical papers and one book, Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution, which argues that living system at the molecular level are best explained as being the result of deliberate intelligent design. Darwin's Black Box has been reviewed by the New York Times, Nature, Philosophy of Science, Christianity Today, and over one hundred other periodicals. He and his wife reside near Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, with their eight children.
    (Source: http://counterbalance.net/bio/behe-body.html)

    His first book was "... internationally reviewed in over one hundred publications and recently named by National Review and World magazine as one of the 100 most important books of the 20th century.
    (Source: Discovery Institute - Michael J. Behe)

    "He holds honors from The National Institute of Health and American Cancer Society and has received a Queens College Faculty in Residence Award and National Research Service Awards Fellowships"
    (Source: Writers' Representatives, LLC: Michael J. Behe)
    deist's Avatar
    deist Posts: 225, Reputation: 7
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    #99

    Sep 30, 2007, 08:04 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3
    There is a new book out which describes once again the scientific evidence against macro-evolution. It is "The Edge of Evolution" By Michael Behe, a leading scientist in the field. he is not, a creationist, but the book is of great value in demonstrating from scientific viewpoint, based upon the latest research findings, that macro-evolution is not possible.
    And here is a website that refutes Behe's theory of irreducible complexity. Darwin's Black Box: Irreducible Complexity or Irreproducible Irreducibility?.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
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    #100

    Sep 30, 2007, 08:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by deist
    And here is a website that refutes Behe's theory of irreducible complexity. Darwin's Black Box: Irreducible Complexity or Irreproducible Irreducibility?.
    In his new book, Behe acknowledges that the theory or irreducible complexity no longer stands against current research. What he was showing was too simplistic and gave too much leeway. The real situation, based upon the latest research is far more complex and less possible than "Darwin's Black Box" indicated. He has updated the information in the new book. There is a new more precise way of determining the feasibility of a mutation based upon the work of three other scientists.

    You need to keep up with the times! :D

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