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firmbeliever · Sep 22, 2007, 02:42 PM

As I have not read the Bible nor done a comparative study,I wonder what the Bible says about Muhammad.

I believe that the original Armeniac(hope that is the right spelling) Bible will have some mention of our Prophet (pbuh)
I was wondering about the Bibles available today.

I have read different articles regarding this and I found that it seems that there is a verse in Isaiah about a book being revealed to an unlettered person and is asked to read when it is replied that he is not learned.

This seems to match with the description of Muhammad(pbuh) because he was unlettered and he was asked to recite,but replies that he is unlettered.

Could someone give reference for this, or am I wrong.

Thank you.

shygrneyzs · Sep 22, 2007, 03:04 PM

This site would agree with you that Muhammad was mentioned in the Old Testament -
Old-Testament describes Him

This site would not agree - Are There Predictions of Muhammad in the Old Testament?

For myself, that was never in any of my religious upbringing, no matter which denomination I belonged to. I do not mean to offend you in any way, but I cannot see it.

firmbeliever · Sep 22, 2007, 03:09 PM

Thanks shy,
Opinion is opinion, no offense taken:)

As I said it could be that the original book mentioned him (pbuh),but in present Bibles it might not be there.
Most of the articles I read were referring to a Hebrew Bible.

andrewyha · Sep 22, 2007, 03:18 PM

I think the language you are looking for is Aramaic. Only a very few portions of the Bible were written in Aramaic. Most was written in Hebrew(Old Testament) or Greek (New Testament). The Bible does not mention Muhammad. The Verse you referred to is Isaiah 29:11-12.

shygrneyzs · Sep 22, 2007, 03:20 PM

I have never had the privilege of learning from a Hebrew Bible. Now if someone who is Jewish and versed in the Old Testament would come and answer this, I would gladly listen.

firmbeliever · Sep 22, 2007, 04:02 PM

Shy,
Thanks for your input though.

I too am hoping someone with knowledge of Hebrew could provide some insight.

I do not ask because I am in doubt,but it has been mentioned in the Quran that the previous scriptures has the glad tidings of our Prophet(pbuh).
And as I know there quite a few on this site well versed in the old scriptures, why not get some insight into this topic.

ordinaryguy · Sep 22, 2007, 06:18 PM

I'm sure if you're determined, you can find something somewhere in the Bible that you can interpret as a prophecy about Muhammad. My question is, why would you bother?

Why is it necessary to write (pbuh) after every mention of the Prophet? Is it some kind of rule or something? And I notice you have another thing you write after every mention of Jesus. What's up with that?

BABRAM · Sep 22, 2007, 06:36 PM

Are you kidding me? I have never read anything in the Torah specifically positive concerning Muhammed. Not one single parashah in all the Shabbos ever! There are scriptures warning against false prophets in general though.

Since this is the Christianity board the following link is from the Christian's perspective:

Muhammad's False Prophecies

Bobby

fallen2grace · Sep 22, 2007, 10:41 PM

I don't think there is anything in the bible about him.

lollipop1972 · Sep 22, 2007, 11:16 PM

Well as what I know Muhammad is the last sent prophet accrdg to Islam faith. His d next one to Jesus. Its true he is unlettered, that's y God sent an angel to him to whisper what GOd message to everybody. In christian faith Muhammad doesn't exist bcoz they cut their history on Jesus alone. But to the Quran, the history still continue on muhammad the last prophet.. Jesus to Islam faith is just a prophet, his name is Prohet Isah. They respect him same as Muhammad.. no offense mean.

firmbeliever · Sep 23, 2007, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

I'm sure if you're determined, you can find something somewhere in the Bible that you can interpret as a prophecy about Muhammad. My question is, why would you bother?

Why is it necessary to write (pbuh) after every mention of the Prophet? Is it some kind of rule or something? And I notice you have another thing you write after every mention of Jesus. What's up with that?

Pbuh-Peace be upon him-abbreviation in english for the words sallallahu alaihi wasallam, which means "May the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him." When the name of Prophet Muhammad is mentioned, Muslims show respect to him by reciting this statement of peace.
After all other Prophets and angels names we say-Alaihi salaam-means may peace be upon him in order to show respect.

About bothering to find out if a previous scripture mentions Muhammad (pbuh) is not something I am trying to force anyone to see or find, it is just for my reference.

As I said before the Quran mentions that he(pbuh) was mentioned in the previous scriptures and I accept/believe that, I was inquiring about the present day Bibles.

Originally Posted by BABRAM

Are you kidding me?! I have never read anything in the Torah specifically positive concerning Muhammed. Not one single parashah in all the Shabbos ever! There are scriptures warning against false prophets in general though.

Since this is the Christianity board the following link is from the Christian's perspective:

Muhammad's False Prophecies

Bobby

Thanks for that link Bobby.

I was just wondering isn't Jesus(alaihi salaam)mentioned in the Torah, but yet from what I know Jews do not accept him as Prophet.
Could you shed some light on that, is my information wrong?

BABRAM · Sep 23, 2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I was just wondering isnt Jesus mentioned in the Torah, but yet from what I know Jews do not accept him as Prophet.
Could you shed some light on that, is my information wrong?

Why would you think that Jesus is mentioned in the Torah, if as you claim in the original question, you have not read the Bible? Now as for Jesus being mentioned, not according to Rabbinical Judaism. However, Jesus is read about in the Christian New Testament.

Bobby

firmbeliever · Sep 23, 2007, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by BABRAM

Why would you think that Jesus is mentioned in the Torah, if as you claim in the original question, you have not read the Bible?! Now as for Jesus being mentioned, not according to Rabbinical Judaism. However, Jesus is read about in the Christian New Testament.

Bobby

Is the Christian New Testament used by Jews too?

I have not read the Bible, but I do read different articles written by different people regarding the monotheistic faiths.

Do bear with my ignorance on Jewish scriptures and Christian Scriptures.

ordinaryguy · Sep 23, 2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As I said before the Quran mentions that he(pbuh) was mentioned in the previous scriptures and I accept/believe that, I was inquiring about the present day Bibles.

Does it say specifically which of the "previous scriptures" he (pbuh) is mentioned in? If it says that it is in the Torah, specifically, then I guess you are duty bound to find a reference there; if it's not specific, I guess all scriptures from all the world's religions are open to your search.

Jews find no references to either Jesus or Muhammad in the Torah. Christians find references to Jesus, but not Muhammad. I'm sure Muslims can, if they wish, find references to both, not only in the Torah, but in the New Testament, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Tao Teh King or any other text that is accepted as scripture by any religion whatsoever. Prophecy is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Is the Christian New Testament used by Jews too?

NO.

firmbeliever · Sep 23, 2007, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Does it say specifically which of the "previous scriptures" he (pbuh) is mentioned in? If it says that it is in the Torah, specifically, then I guess you are duty bound to find a reference there; if it's not specific, I guess all scriptures from all the world's religions are open to your search.

Jews find no references to either Jesus or Muhammad in the Torah. Christians find references to Jesus, but not Muhammad. I'm sure Muslims can, if they wish, find references to both, not only in the Torah, but in the New Testament, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Tao Teh King or any other text that is accepted as scripture by any religion whatsoever. Prophecy is in the eye of the beholder.

NO.

Quran chapter 7;verse 157
"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) , - he commands them for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islâm has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibât [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabâ'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allâh's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad SAW), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'ân) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful"

"Prophecy is in the eye of the beholder", is that sarcasm I sense...

ordinaryguy · Sep 23, 2007, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

"Prophecy is in the eye of the beholder", is that sarcasm I sense....

No, just a recognition that we can always find whatever we feel compelled to find. The danger in over-reliance on holy books is that it's so easy to overlook our own role in interpreting what we read, so that we come away convinced that God agrees with us, when in reality all we have done is dress our preconceptions up in fancy clothes.

firmbeliever · Sep 23, 2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

No, just a recognition that we can always find whatever we feel compelled to find. The danger in over-reliance on holy books is that it's so easy to overlook our own role in interpreting what we read, so that we come away convinced that God agrees with us, when in reality all we have done is dress our preconceptions up in fancy clothes.

Ok,
Sorry if I misunderstood.

About being convinced that God agrees with us, for me I find that I am not trying to dress my preconceptions with what the Almighty has revealed.
But I submit and bow down to His guidelines, and His revelations and His Messengers and Prophets(peace be upon them all) and accept His decree in all matters.

So I am not trying to twist things to fit my needs and views,
But I am just researching for knowledge sake because Allah always asks the believers to ask and find out from those in the know about some of the matters we do not know.Like the sciences, original scriptures of the people of the Book(Jews and Christians) etc.

Tj3 · Sep 23, 2007, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Quran chapter 7;verse 157
"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) , ....

Let's start here. I could go to other references in the Koran also which points to the Christian gospel. So, that being the case, why have you not taken the time to go to the gospel and see what it says? If the Koran points to the gospel then why don't we look at what the gospel has to say.

Here is the Apostle Paul's summary of the gospel:

1 Cor 15:1-11
15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
NKJV

firmbeliever · Sep 23, 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Let's start here. I could go to other references in the Koran also which points to the Christian gospel. So, that being the case, why have you not taken the time to go to the gospel and see what it says? If the Koran points to the gospel then why don't we look at what the gospel has to say.

Here is the Apostle Paul's summary of the gospel:

1 Cor 15:1-11
15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
NKJV

Thanks,

I do not need to study and learn the Bibles in existence today in such detail,nor do I have to believe in the crucification of Jesus(alaihi salaam),because the Quran states otherwise.

I just needed to know references made regarding Muhammad (pbuh)in the scriptures.

Tj3 · Sep 23, 2007, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Thanks,

I do not need to study and learn the Bibles in existence today in such detail,nor do I have to believe in the crucification of Jesus(alaihi salaam),because the Quran states otherwise.

I just needed to know references made regarding Muhammad (pbuh)in the scriptures.

Al-Imran 3:3 He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it; and He sent down the Law Torah and the Gospel (of Jesus) aforetime, as guidance to the people, and He sent down Salvation.

Since the gospel came from God for the guidance and salvation of mankind according to the Koran, how can you deny its importance?