[jduke44]

Ok, I will try to explain this the best I can with what I saw. I have an old repco boiler with 2 zones and I was wondering if the wiring was correct. The 2 zones are wired into a master control box then goes out to the pump on the boiler and the 2 thermos and another set of wires to another box(not sure what it is. It real old and dusty so I wasn't able to get all the info.

The master control box has spot for 3 zones. They are all labeled with letter 'B', 'R', and maybe 'C'(which is not used at all).
1 of the zone valves are wired this way: red wire is connect to the 'B' terminal on the 2nd zone (of master control box) and white is connect to the 'R' terminal of zone1 (of master control box).

2nd zone valve: red wire is connected to the 'B' terminal on the 3rd zone (of master control box) and white wire is connected to 'R' terminal of zone 1(master control box).

White wires to both zone valves are connected to 'R' terminal of zone 1 (master control box) which then connects to the motor on the boiler.

Red wire to one zone valve and one thermo is connected to 'B' of zone 2 (mcb) and the other zone valve and the other thermo 'B' terminal to zone 3 (mcb).

White wire to the 2nd thermo is connected to the 'R' terminal of zone 3(mcb)

The 'R' terminal of zone 2 and 3(mcb) are jumped together with blue wire.

There is a box that a white wire from 'R' terminal of zone 2(mcb) runs to that then goes directly to the switch.

The reason for all this is because I am not getting heat upstairs but I am not sure if the zones are wired properly to cause this or I have another problem. I have a feeling the zone valve went on me but not sure which one goes to what thermo. We bought this house in May and Ihave no idea what they did or didn't do. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[labman]

Start turning the down stairs thermostat at on and off and identify which zone valve responds to it. Also note if you can tell if the valve is open or closed. Next, turn both thermostats to give heat. Check to see if both valves look open, and the voltage at the different terminals.

To get heat, the thermostat must be wired to return power to the zone valves and also to the gas valve and the pump. Most thermostats run off 24 volts and use relays to switch the power to everything. If you don't find the problem, post back.

You may also be able to force the sellers to pay to have a professional fix it right. Basic stuff like the furnace must be in working order unless disclosed.

[jduke44]

One other thing I forgot to mention. The one zone valve seemed to warm to the touch and the other was cold. Is that normal. I was playing with it last night kind of doing what you mentioned and notcied that. It has since cooled off.

Not sure if I can force them to pay for it. It seemed to be workign during the inspection. You mentioned that in another post I had and things keep coming up that I forget to look at the disclosure. Thanks for reminding me.

I don't want to sound stupid, but is there a way to tell if the zone is responding by looking or do I need to get a meter on it. Right now the zones are on auto and I pulled the switch to open but nothing semed to happen on either one.

Is the relay what might be the box that goes to the switch that has wires coming from the master control box?

I am contemplating having a new boiler installed anyway because it is a 30 year old unit. I wanted to try to get a year out of it and have it installed in the summer but I don't know if I want to chance it with 2 young kids. Thanks for your advice.

[labman]

Yes, when a valve opens and lets hot water flow through it, it does heat up. The little box could be a relay. They usually have at least 4 wires going to them.

As far as looking at a zone valve to see if it is open or closed, it depends on the type it is. If it has a motor that runs and shuts off, there may be a wheel that is marked.

[jduke44]

I tried to check the thermos today but unfortunately, my wife is sick and my 2 year old is not cooperating. I am pretty sure I figured out which zone goes to what. I crankec both thermos and both zones were hot to the touch and the pipes going out and the returns were warm. I checked the pipes in the radiators and they were warm also. Then I turned the downstairs thermo to normal temp so it wouldn't kick on and left the upstairs the same. And the downstairs pipes obviously went cold while it didn't kick the boiler on and the upstairs remained warm. Then I turned the temp down on the upstairs thermo to 74 degrees (it was at 80 degrees) and after awhile the pipes went cold but the air temp upstairs was 70 (so it should have kicked on). I checked the pipes coming off the boiler and they were warm going to the radiators but were cold in the returns.


Summary: it seems that when I had the thermo cranked the warm water would go to the radiators then after knocking them down the radiators went cold. From what I see everything seems to be working, do you think maybe there is air in the lines? I have not had a chance to purge the system yet.

Also, the temp gauge reads 90 degree. Is this enough?

[labman]

I am afraid I lack enough experience with hot water systems to help much more.

[jduke44]

No problem,maybe someone else will see it and repsond. Thanks for the advice up to now.

[caibuadday]

No problem,maybe someone else will see it and repsond. Thanks for the advice up to now.

If the pipe is warm... probably there is no air in the system... the water is 90 F supply/return?. 90F return kind of cold... 90 supply way too cold( min 150 * don't set it more than 200F)... check temp setting at boiler... as for the valve... is there a manual override( keep valve open mannually) on the valve itself?

[caibuadday]

No problem,maybe someone else will see it and repsond. Thanks for the advice up to now.

Also... if the stat and the valves are working properly... this is how I would test to see if the system is working properly:::: set both stat to the max (85? )... set the water temp. to about 195 ( max 200)... check the gas distributors ( gas tubing in side boiler) and flames are blue ( like your gas stove)... if the whole system if working properly and the boiler is big enough the house's temp should get up to 85 in about 3 hours( assume outside air is 60F)... how big is the water pipe main/zone... how big is the boiler (btu)

[jduke44]

As far as the temp, I am reading it from the gauge that shows the psi's and the temp. That is 90 degrees. I thought I had it figured out but I don't... again. Today, I turned the downstairs thermo up to get heat down stairs and figured the upstairs pipes should get warm. Nope, didn't happen. I checked the pipes downstairs and it seemed the pipes for down was very hot along with both zones. The return for the down was hot also. The pipes were hot for the upstairs until a little after the zone then it was cold - return also cold. I came home from work tonight to help my wife out (she's sick) and before I left I turned the upstairs thermo up to 85. It only took 10 min before the pipes got hot. Does this make sense?

How do you think I would set the water temp? I checked the boiler when you mentioend it earlier but I could not find it.

Yes, there is a manual override (one side says auto the other side says open) but I don't want to do this until I am home and able to monitor the heat.
The flames I believe are blue.
The pipes are 3/4" to 1" (I didn't measure them)
It is a 100,000 BTU.

Unfortunately, I am battling having to take care of the kids (2 under 2) and my wife who can't get out of bed so my responses will be kind of slow.

I am in the process of getting quotes from people on a new boiler and am almost ready to have this done instead of waiting until next year or two. I figured with everything going up, it will give me more efficiency anyway. I am hoping I won't have the same problems with a new boiler.

I hope I answered all the questions. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

[caibuadday]

As far as the temp, I am reading it from the guage that shows the psi's and the temp. That is 90 degrees. I thought I had it figured out but I don't ....again. Today, I turned the downstairs thermo up to get heat down stairs and figured the upstairs pipes should get warm. Nope, didn't happen. I checked the pipes downstairs and it seemed the pipes for down was very hot along with both zones. The return for the down was hot also. The pipes were hot for the upstairs until a little after the zone then it was cold - return also cold. I came home from work tonight to help my wife out (she's sick) and before I left I turned the upstairs thermo up to 85. It only took 10 min before the pipes got hot. Does this make sense?

How do you think I would set the water temp? I checked the boiler when you mentioend it earlier but I could not find it.

Yes, there is a manual override (one side says auto the other side says open) but I don't want to do this until I am home and able to monitor the heat.
The flames I believe are blue.
The pipes are 3/4" to 1" (I didn't measure them)
It is a 100,000 BTU.

Unfortunately, I am battling having to take care of the kids (2 under 2) and my wife who can;t get out of bed so my responses will be kinda slow.

I am in the process of getting quotes from people on a new boiler and am almost ready to have this done instead of waiting til next year or two. I figured with everyting going up, it wil give me more efficiency anyways. I am hoping I won't have the same problems with a new boiler.

I hope I answered all the questions. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

if the pipe FEEL hot... it is more than 90F... there is a water temp controller... look around more closely.. . if you still want a new boiler then just make sure that the contractor agree to correct * the problems you currently have( new boiler may not solve your problems)... boiler rate input 100000btu (80% output)... new ones still rate 80 to 90% efficiency... **gas boiller doenot lost much of its efficiency as it age( if it clean)...

[labman]

Most of the older systems are simple on/off. If the thermostat is calling for heat in a zone, the valve will be wide open. It will stay open until the set point is reached, and then close completely. It is possible the thermostat is out of calibration. You could have to turn it all the way up to get it to come on at all. It could be most of the problem.

If the pipe is only warm a little ways past the valve, it could be conduction with the valve closed. If the boiler and pump are supplying hot water, the pipe should quickly heat up in the whole loop if the valve is open. Taking 10 minutes suggests a circulation problem.

This gage that reads psi and temperature, does it just have one needle with 2 scales? If so, it could be an artifact from an old steam system, where there is a direct relationship between temperature and pressure, the pressure rising once you go past 212 degrees. Such a gauge would just screw into a tee with a very short stem. Real temperature gages usually have a longer probe, maybe even at the end of a small tube.

[jduke44]

One for the things that are consistent with contractors is that I need to get more circulation underneath the baseboards. The people before us put carpet right up against the baseboards. I don't think this is my problem... yet. I am going to get all the rug away from the baseboards eventually.

That's what I am afraid of is that the new boiler will not solve the problem. I figured it will be a starting point. My other choice is to get it cleaned and serviced and have them check everything out for me and see what happens. At this point I just need to get heat upstairs but I don't want to pay for a cleaning then turn around and have to put a new boiler in anyway. I'm sure the boiler is working fine, it just may be the parts around it. That could cost me some bucks to replace. I guess I have some thinking to do. Thanks for your help

[caibuadday]

One fo the things that are consistent with contractors is that I need to get more circulation underneath the baseboards. The people before us put carpet right up against the baseboards. I don't think this is my problem...yet. I am going to get all the rug away from the baseboards eventually.

That's what I am afraid of is that the new boiler will not solve the problem. I figured it will be a starting point. My other choice is to get it cleaned and serviced and have them check everything out for me and see what happens. At this point I just need to get heat upstairs but I don't want to pay for a cleaning then turn around and have to put a new boiler in anyways. I'm sure the boiler is working fine, it just may be the parts around it. That could cost me some bucks to replace. I guess I have some thinking to do. Thanks for your help

did any contactor test the system by max out the stat setpoint to see if the boiler cycle OFF... if not... how about you put the stat on MAx and open both zone (manually valve open) and check #1 do both zones get heat (temp?. start/ end of each loop)... #2 check when the boiler cycle off ( no flame... on/off cycle)... out side air temp... yeah you could ask them for a check up and some adjustment

[jduke44]

labman, I believe it has a needle for each. Psi is on the top of the gauge and water temp is on the bottom.

Caibuadday, I had 2 estimates and alls they did was look and ask questions and gave me an estimate. I didn't have them check anything or they would have charged me. They did not do any heat loss calculation. I will see what the guy on Monday does and what he quotes me and go from there. I will try to do what you suggested tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks

[labman]

If the upstairs heats up if you turn the thermostat up high enough, the big problem may be the thermostat. You could replace it, and buy enough time to do some other things you may need, window and insulation upgrades, so that you may be able to install a smaller system when you do go ahead with a new boiler.

[jduke44]

I actually installed a new thermostat as soon as we moved in because of this problem. I am not sure I know what is going on. Sometimes I get heat and sometimes I don't. I did notice the temp gauge on the boiler was reading 140-150 degrees when we were getting heat upstairs. I didn't get a chance to test the temps today. I will do some tests over the weekend. I'll try to clean out the baseboards and cut the carpet away from them. As fara as any contractor doing any work, I haven't really ask them to do that yet. I am trying to see for myself first then decide if I want to put money into it (either servicing or new one). Thanks a lot for your inputs.

[caibuadday]

I actually installed a new thermostat as soon as we moved in b/c of this problem. I am not sure I know what is going on. Sometimes I get heat and sometimes I don't. I did notice the temp guage on the boiler was reading 140-150 degrees when we were getting heat upstairs. I didn't get a chance to test the temps today. I will do some tests over the weekend. I'll try to clean out the baseboards and cut the carpet away from them. As fara as any contractor doing any work, I haven't really ask them to do that yet. I am trying to see for myself first then decide if I want to put money into it (either servicing or new one). Thanks alot for your inputs.

OK... 150 supply is still low for you... did the boiler cycle off at this temp... if it cycle off... look closely around the boiler contol to find the water temp control dial and raise it up to 190 (max 200)... if it get too hot during the test... you could open the windows

[jduke44]

Really? The pipes were really hot to the touch... maybe that doesn't matter. I don't think it was running when I saw this temp. Unfortunately, it was right before I left to go to work. I will look for the temp dial. Like I said before, since my wife is sick she is getting hot and cold spells so I want to becareful in changing the temp right now. I am kind of in a pickle. Eventually I will figure this out. I will update you on Monday if anything changes. Thanks.

[jduke44]

A friend came over to look to see if he could figure something out and I noticed the zone valve for the upstairs was not connected properly to the base of the unit. I am hoping this had something to do with it. One thing I noticed is that when I crank it to 85 it seems to have the pipes warm, when we knock it down to 75-76 the pipes aren't as warm. I was not able to test the system out this weekend. I will try to do this within the next couple days.