Check out some similar questions!

billieidol · Sep 5, 2007, 05:36 AM

If I borrow a connection from a neighbor with his knowledge can he see my surfing habits?

Capuchin · Sep 5, 2007, 05:39 AM

I'm not familiar with "borrowing" a WiFi connection, how do you plan on giving it back? By paying for the bandwidth you use?

He can see your surfing habits if he is so inclined, yes.

NeedKarma · Sep 5, 2007, 05:46 AM

Think about it, all the traffic goes through a single point - the router.

retsoksirhc · Sep 5, 2007, 07:42 AM

Yes, even if there's wireless security. As long as it's going through his modem, he will be able to see everything that's going by, if he were to set up a packet sniffer between the wireless router and the modem.

He can also VERY easily see that you've connected to it just by looking at the DHCP Clients table on the router, so I definitely wouldn't do it withOUT his knowledge. (Although you said with his knowledge, so that's not a problem)

ScottGem · Sep 5, 2007, 07:48 AM

As noted, yes he can. But it would require more knowledge than the average person has. Still, there are tools out there that make it easy.

danm261291 · Sep 5, 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by billieidol

If I borrow a connection from a neighbor with his knowledge can he see my surfing habits?

Many wireless routers have facilities to see internet activity, so I believe it would be possible for the person to see your online activity.

Also I would not advise using a connection without the owner knowledge as in some places this is illegal. (Places I know of are some US States, UK, Germany). There is also a recent case of someone going to jail for doing this.

Link; Man arrested for Wi-Fi theft in London, faces fine or jail - Pocket-lint.co.uk - gadget news and reviews

Daniel

DonaldDoo® · Sep 5, 2007, 03:42 PM

The first paragraph here is from CNN.com

Legal questions aside, reliability is another reason to pay for your own access. If you are a heavy user or need the Internet to work from home, relying on a connection that your neighbor could shut off at any moment is probably not a good idea.
There is also the possibility that someone could have set up the unsecured connection as a trap. Experts say it's possible for the network subscriber to gain at least partial access to your computer, read your e-mails and see the pages you visit if you are using their connection. Any personal information you send online could then be compromised.
So while pirating your neighbor's Wi-Fi it may seem like a good way to siphon a free service, you may end up feeling pretty stupid if you get a summons for sneaking a peek at the latest sports scores or your favorite Web sites are the topic of conversation at the neighborhood Christmas party.

Florida law states that:
Unauthorized access to a computer network, applies to all varieties of computer network breaches, and gives prosecutors considerable leeway depending on the severity. It carries a potential sentence ranging from probation to 5 years in prison.

Don't be a thief, spend a few bucks and get your own internet access.

Don

ScottGem · Sep 5, 2007, 04:53 PM

The OP said "with his knowledge"! Why are people jumping all over him about stealing?

DonaldDoo® · Sep 5, 2007, 05:54 PM

Wow you're looking to mix it up tonight.

He is stealing from the ISP. What he is doing is against the law. Look it up.

Borrowing LOL.
Whatever it takes to make you feel good about yourself I guess.

ScottGem · Sep 5, 2007, 06:17 PM

Actually that is not stealing. ISPs have basically given up the ghost on that one. They know they have no control over how many computers a subscriber allows to use their connection. The only way it would be stealing is if he used the Internet connection without permission.

And no I'm not looking to mix it up. You weren't the only one who came down on him about stealing, without cause.

Its not about feeling good about myself, its about not attacking someone without provocation.

worthbeads · Sep 5, 2007, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by DonaldDoo®

The first paragraph here is from CNN.com

Legal questions aside, reliability is another reason to pay for your own access. If you are a heavy user or need the Internet to work from home, relying on a connection that your neighbor could shut off at any moment is probably not a good idea.
There is also the possibility that someone could have set up the unsecured connection as a trap. Experts say it's possible for the network subscriber to gain at least partial access to your computer, read your e-mails and see the pages you visit if you are using their connection. Any personal information you send online could then be compromised.
So while pirating your neighbor's Wi-Fi it may seem like a good way to siphon a free service, you may end up feeling pretty stupid if you get a summons for sneaking a peek at the latest sports scores or your favorite Web sites are the topic of conversation at the neighborhood Christmas party.

Florida law states that:
Unauthorized access to a computer network, applies to all varieties of computer network breaches, and gives prosecutors considerable leeway depending on the severity. It carries a potential sentence ranging from probation to 5 years in prison.

Don't be a thief, spend a few bucks and get your own internet access.

Don

I highly doubt the neighbor purchased a router to trap the OP. In fact, I highly doubt the neighbor even knows how to. I would say that's a little advanced for the average person.

Legally, as far as I'm concerned, if the neighbor was that freaked out about people "stealing" a connection he would probably put an access code on it.

Also, I don't know why it would be considered stealing. If anything, you have an obligation to use the connection. He is bombarding your airspace with radio signals! :D Radio and local TV is free, why shouldn't wireless internet be free? It's practically the same thing!

Just nicely ask your neighbor if you could use his connection.

DonaldDoo® · Sep 5, 2007, 07:09 PM

So it’s not stealing simply because the ISP’s don’t aggressively pursue the wrongdoers? I guess in that same vein it’s also not illegal to purchase pirated software or music CDs. I would also assume in the larger cities where the police a busy with murders and other violent crimes it would be perfectly legal to smoke Crack or maybe visit a brothel or two. The ISP has nothing to do with the laws of the state. That is up to the legislators to create the laws and law enforcement to enforce. Try and find a state that it is not a crime to access a wired or wireless network or internet signal without the authorization of the service provider. There are several federal laws pertaining to this as well.

So a lot of people do it and it doesn’t negatively affect you. It must be legal!
A fine example of logic coming from the left side of the isle.

ScottGem · Sep 5, 2007, 07:17 PM

The problem here is that they aren't accessing the ISP's signal. Once the signal gets to the router, it become's the signal of the router owner. So its not illegal allow multiple people to use that signal. It would be illegal to resell the signal, though. Look at it this way. You can invite a bunch of people to watch a PPV concert at your home. Nothing illegal about it as long as you don't charge them for it. The principle is the same.

And I find it amusing that you use the analogies you have, because I have railed against the same things. But you are incorrect here in applying those analogies.

worthbeads · Sep 5, 2007, 07:19 PM

So it's not stealing simply because the ISP's don't aggressively pursue the wrongdoers? I guess in that same vein it's also not illegal to purchase pirated software or music CDs. I would also assume in the larger cities where the police a busy with murders and other violent crimes it would be perfectly legal to smoke Crack or maybe visit a brothel or two. The ISP has nothing to do with the laws of the state. That is up to the legislators to create the laws and law enforcement to enforce. Try and find a state that it is not a crime to access a wired or wireless network or internet signal without the authorization of the service provider. There are several federal laws pertaining to this as well.

So a lot of people do it and it doesn't negatively affect you. It must be legal!
A fine example of logic coming from the left side of the isle.

Yeah, stealing a wireless connection is way more important than a murder case :rolleyes:.

Maybe we should also put a tax on the air we breathe.

DonaldDoo® · Sep 5, 2007, 07:58 PM

I’m sorry Scott but actual fact wins out over personal preferences on this one.

Our personal theories and opinions of what is right and wrong simply don’t matter.
The actual laws state that it is illegal to do exactly what this guy is doing. People have been arrested and charged with a crime punishable by prison.

Take a look at MI law for example:
752.795 Prohibited conduct.
Sec. 5.
A person shall not intentionally and without authorization or by exceeding valid authorization do any of the following:

(a) Access or cause access to be made to a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network to acquire, alter, damage, delete, or destroy property or otherwise use the service of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network.

(b) Insert or attach or knowingly create the opportunity for an unknowing and unwanted insertion or attachment of a set of instructions or a computer program into a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network, that is intended to acquire, alter, damage, delete, disrupt, or destroy property or otherwise use the services of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network. This subdivision does not prohibit conduct protected under section 5 of article I of the state constitution of 1963 or under the first amendment of the constitution of the United States.

History: 1979, Act 53, Eff. Mar. 27, 1980 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 326, Eff. Apr. 1, 1997
Link to full description of the law.
Michigan Legislature
Link to a story of a guy charged
WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8 - Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video - A wireless felony

ScottGem · Sep 5, 2007, 08:03 PM

I don't disagree with any of that. I'm aware of the law. But I don't see anything in what you posted that contradicts what I said.

The owner of the router paid for the service, its his computer network. He gives permission for Joe Smith to access his network. No law has been broken.

And those are the pertinent facts.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 5, 2007, 08:09 PM

Donald the issue is of course that the person had permission, from the neighbor, the law was without permission.

If you drive in front of my house, and don't ask me and just hook up.
*** although many computers hook up automatically on open connections*

But if I come to your home and say can I hook up my lap top, then I have permisssion, so the law says as you posted it, without perission.

So sorry no law broken, by your own post wording.