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inthebox · Jan 29, 2008, 09:28 PM

I have adopted my wife's three, I guess I should say our three.

More later - got to go to bed.

Wondergirl · Jan 29, 2008, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Synnen

Adoptive parents are the "real" parents--which would make birthparents what? Fake parents? Imaginary parents? We don't deny that the adoptive parents are the ones that the child should call mom and dad, and they're the ones the child should be more attached to, and love.

My mil, the grandmother of her son's two adopted daughters whom I mentioned in an earlier post, always named my and her daughter's sons as her "real" grandchildren. She took only the three "real" grandchildren on outings. If the two girls misbehaved, it was because of "bad seed." If she was "corrected" or disagreed with, she just giggled.

So you see, it can work the other way too, unfortunately.

inthebox · Jan 30, 2008, 07:39 AM

I met my wife when she was 22 and the girls had just turned 4 and 5 and my son was 2 and a half. Yes, she was 19 when she found out she was pregnant with him. She would tell you that despite being divorced and the biological kicking her out that she decided to have our son.

I'm glad she made that choice. My daughters are wonderful but from my ethnic background, boys are more favored.

The biological never voluntarily paid child supporrt, my wife had to have court order to have wages garnished. The amount was little because he could never keep a job. Besides that he never visited his biologicals, not even calls. After more than a year of no contact , child support is considered 'contact' in this particular jurisdiction, we went through the adoption process. He stated he would never give up his 'rights,' but when the court date came up, he never showed up.

I do not have biological children of my own. These are my children.

collinsmom · Feb 2, 2008, 12:26 PM

I'm just frustrated by the views on adoption, and how the adoptive family is so often celebrated, and birthparents so often forgotten, or lied to, thought to be interfering when they just want what the adoptive parents promised before they signed the papers.

I guess I'm just so militant because I just had a friend whose adoption plan was closed on her--the adoptive parents simply disappeared, and left no forwarding address for the birthmom to contact them, after promising pictures, and letters and visits in order to get her child.

I'd just like to see some reform to adoption where the adoptive parents didn't have all of the power.[/QUOTE]

Synnen:
Why shouldn't the adoptive family be celebrated. Believe me, we went through so much to get to the point where we could finally bring home a child. I went through so much pain of not only infertility, but miscarriages and people looking at me and judging me because we could not have a baby. I put my body through so much with all of the picking, sticking, proding to only be told "we don't know why you can't get pregnant. It might only be stress. Go home and relax."

I have to tell you that my feelings on our adoption are one of overwhelming joy and guilt. The day we went home with our son was the biggest rollercoaster of emotions I have ever dealt with. One side of me was so happy that we finally had our child, but other side was how can I take this baby seeing what it was doing to our birthmom and birthfamily. I've never cried and felt so much grief in my life. You think it gets easier.. NO! We are in contact with our birthmother and family. We have a wonderful time together, but when it's time to go home, all of the emotions of guilt and their sadness comes flooding back. However, it about our son. We do it for him.

Your statement about reform to take away "all the power" from adoptive parents... they scares the heck out of me... what do you mean by that?

startover22 · Feb 2, 2008, 06:05 PM

There should be individual plans for each adoption and if someone breaks the contract there should be lawful action taken.

Synnen · Feb 2, 2008, 10:51 PM

Collinsmom:

Right now, the vast majority of adoption agencies are paid ONLY by the adoptive family. Guess who their first loyalty and priority goes to?

There are only 2 states that have laws mandating that adoption contracts be honored. That means that in 48 states, the adoptive parents can lie through their teeth to get their hands on a baby, and then walk away, forgetting that the only reason THEY were picked, out of the thousands of perspective adoptive parents out there, was because of what they agreed to give the birthparents.

Yeah, birthparents have the right to choose adoption or not, but once they sign those relinquishment papers, they're walking on thin ice and hope the rest of their lives.

And yeah---I know how hard adoptive parents have it, too. I'm infertile now. Some 25% of birthmothers suffer from "inexplicable infertility". In other words--nothing is wrong with me, but I can't get pregnant. We've been trying for 7 years, with one miscarriage in there. I KNOW how people look at you, and judge you, and ask the rudest questions about your lack of children. I know about the comments people make that cut like a knife, and they have no idea that what they've said is wrong ("well, YOU don't have kids, you couldn't understand" and "It's so much easier for YOU to do such-and-such because you don't have to worry about kids").

I'm just so tired of "choose adoption not abortion" billboards. I'm sick of seeing cards you can give to adoptive parents when they become parents, and pendants and jewelry celebrating the adoptive family--with NOTHING similar for birth parents. I would LOVE to get a card for Mother's Day that actually addresses the fact that I'm a mother. I'd like to see billboards that, instead of saying "Abortion stops a beating heart!" say "Thank you to the millions of birthmothers that have completed families".

I agree with Start that every adoption plan should be individual, since only the people involved know what they can and can not do for the next 18 years.

But--what lawful action can possibly be taken? Take the kids away? That doesn't help the kid at ALL, it just makes them confused. Fines? That just takes money away from taking care of the kids. The ONLY punishment I can come up with that would be just is taking away any and all adoptive rights from the parents who renege--as in, they could never adopt again. I'd LOVE it to be that they can't have ANY more children, but that's just salt on the wound, really.

I guess, really, what I'd like in the end is acknowledment by society. Adoptive parents are acknowledged every time someone tells them what great kids they have, every time their child says "I love you", every time they attend a special event as the parents of their child.

Birthparents are acknowledged by their A-families quite often--but seldom by ANYONE else. There is a Birthmother's Day--usually noted only by birthmothers. But--every time someone asks me if I have kids--how do I answer? For all of the improvements in adoption for the last 20 years, people still do not TALK about adoption--with EITHER set of parents, really. People are very uncomfortable when I talk about placing my child for adoption. They have NO idea what to say. Why is it somehow "bad" for me to talk about my child, just because she's not MY child? I always feel like people think that placing a child for adoption is still like it was in the 50s---you just don't talk about it, you forget it happened, move along, nothing to see here.

Bah, I don't really know how to express my thoughts on this well tonight. I hope you get the idea, though.

Wondergirl · Feb 2, 2008, 11:01 PM

Syn, you're a good writer. Get the word out in print. Are there non-profits and support groups and other organizations for the birthparents? They might have suggestions for writing about this. Even a magazine like Reader's Digest might be interested in this subject. (I've never seen it mentioned there.) You have it mostly written in this thread. Get the word out about what it means to be a birthparent who has given up a child for adoption!

startover22 · Feb 3, 2008, 11:03 AM

I had no idea that there were only two states that enforce adoptive laws! Holy Crap, that is just wrong. I agree with Wondergirl, you are a lovely writer, you have a great gift in expressing your views. And your facts. Synn, since you are so great at writing, maybe we can get a copy of this post and send it to appropriate people to start setting guidelines and rules. I will be happy to write something and backyou up... I bet we could even start a petition, there are many people on this site that have adopted and that are birthparents.
What do you think? Too far fetched? I don't think so.
I have to add, that Jesse, I hate calling him a foster boy, but he is. He has been living here for over four months. He has been in and out of the system for 11 years, more than 20 homes, and he is only 14 years old. We are the first Foster parents to let him have full contact with his mother, aunt, cousins, sister, friends, and other family. I know it is different, but it makes a big difference to have that security, especially if they know about birthmom, or family. It is only natural for the blood to run through Jesse, no matter how wonderful we are to him or how much we do for him, his mom is his mom. So woth that being said, I will do what I can to help. Hugs!

Synnen · Feb 3, 2008, 11:29 AM

Hmmm... I want to correct a misconception that I'm not sure if I started or not.

ALL states enforce adoption laws.

Only 2 states (Minnesota and California) allow there to be LEGAL contracts between the birthfamily and the adoptive family.

Most states see those contracts as being too close to 'baby selling" and will not allow them.

startover22 · Feb 3, 2008, 11:54 AM

I totally misunderstood. Sorry! Tell me then, does the money exchange in adoptions? If so then it would be normal to have a contract.

startover22 · Feb 3, 2008, 11:57 AM

I think they "the sneaky law makers" can figure out how to word it so it makes plenty sense, maybe that is what we need to be working towards!

Synnen · Feb 3, 2008, 10:15 PM

Money is NEVER paid to birth parents. Not EVER.

Adoptive parents pay adoption agencies (if it's an agency adoption) or lawyers (if it's a private adoption). They are generally responsible for the medical bills of the pregnancy, childbirth, hospital stays, and any neo-natal care that is needed. They're also, depending on the state, responsible for the foster care that is involved in the first part of the baby's life. Usually they pay ALL legal fees.

Birthmothers can receive gifts from adoptive parents--as long as it is NOT in the form of money. In other words--they can take her into their home and pay the day to day bills of a pregnancy, along with maternity clothes, and gifts like jewelry or figurines or picture frames or whatever--but they can NOT give her money. Giving her money is considered to be buying her baby, and that is not legal anywhere in the US.

I'm not a lawyer--I don't know the absolute laws on this, so if I'm wrong, and someone can cite where, please let me know. But--that's how it's always been explained to me, both at the time of my daughter's adoption, and in the involvement I've had in the adoption community off and on for the last 15 years.

Technically, Start, what happens is not really a legal thing. I mean, legally the birth parents have to sign away their parental rights to clear the way for an adoption. At that point, the children become wards of the state until the adoptive parents sign the papers that legally adopt the children. If for some reason in that in between phase, the state finds that the adoptive parents should not adopt, for whatever reason, the state can then give those children in adoption to whoever they want. Usually, though, they honor the birthparents' wishes.

There is generally a waiting period between those 2 dates, though the adoptive parents generally take custody right after the relinquishment papers are signed. Some states have a grace period where the birthmom can change her mind, some states don't. If you are having ANY doubts, you are urged to NOT sign those papers. You're asked over and over and over again if you understand what you're signing away (and you do---but you don't. How can you possibly really understand it?). You're asked over and over and over again if someone else is coercing you into signing your rights away. Coercion, however, takes many forms, most of which are not obvious, but that's a different subject. That's why I get so angry at those birthmoms who cry "foul" when really they just changed their minds later and just want their baby back. You don't get to sign those papers without at least 5 different people asking you, under oath, if you know what you're doing.

So... since the child, even in a private adoption, isn't going directly from one set of parents to another, since the state is in the middle there, there really isn't a contract between one set of parents and the other--each is, in essence, signing a contract with the state.

My adoption story took place in Wisconsin, so I can't tell you how the states that allow contracts between the parents work, really. I just know that they are legal, and enforceable. I don't know if what happens is that the state goes after the offender breaking the contract and forces them to do whatever they were supposed to (by supervising visits, or demanding pictures be sent, or whatever), or if there is a different penalty entirely.

That's something I would have to research.

startover22 · Feb 3, 2008, 11:05 PM

Wow, Synnen, thank you for all of the info. I am thinking even harder on this subject. I hope to talk about this a little more with you. I find it interesting how hard it is to be any one of the involved people, the child, birthmother, and adoptive parent, I just see a circle of pain and it hurts, even from us "outsiders" to see you all go through this. There are wonderful stories and there are terrible stories of adoptions. My grandmother, well, she met one of her brothers when she was 70. Just think being 70 and finally finding a brother that got adopted out, it was a wonder, but she went through a lot of pain and I am sure he did too. Not knowing, not being able to know at that, this day and age there just has to be something they can do, that we could do. :) I know you know this, but not everyone only thinks of the adoptive parents, my grandmother and I have talked long and hard about what her mother must have felt, especially back then. I think we have come a long way, but obviously not far enough! Hugs, Start

Amphitheregirl · Dec 4, 2008, 02:48 PM

I personally disapprove of closed adoption simply because I am currently experiencing it. I can’t find my birth parents names at all and it is very frustrating. Although I do believe that adoption is a good thing. I just don’t think a closed adoption is fair to the child. In a closed adoption all the papers are sealed, the adoptive and birth parents don’t even have to meet. I was born in one city but my birth certificate says a completely different city. The only thing I have to remember my birth mother by is a little doll.
I’m sorry I sound like a wet blanket
Anyway I believe open adoptions are much better than closed adoptions simply because it allows the birth mother to stay in contact with the adoptive parents.

Moparbyfar · Dec 7, 2008, 03:57 PM

I can only give my thoughts based on my experience. I was adopted by a loving family when still a baby and although it was an open adoption, have found it harder to track my birth parents than it is to get my 8 year old to admit when he is wrong! It has taken me 8 or so years to try and come up with anything solid but because my birth mother put false details of her name and family contacts on the papers, I have no real leads. I am however grateful for my adoption because I know I was raised in a healthy, solid family environment with immediate and extended family who treated me no different even though I am of a totally different race. I'm sure if I had been aborted, the whole world would have been thrown into complete disarray! :D
So I know that adoption can leave one feeling confused (especially for the adoptee), frustrated, rejected, yet at the same time, relieved (to know one possibly had a better start in life), loved, priviledged, accepted. Bear in mind these things are personal only to me.
If you're asking what people really know about all the ins and outs of the process of adoption well, I wouldn't have a clue. Things have changed at least a little since my adoption 30 something years ago I would guess. All the same, I doubt that the feelings would change much whatever the process being.

(These thoughts and ideas are purely that of my own and not intended to offend or aggravate) :)

Synnen · Dec 7, 2008, 09:25 PM

Thanks for sharing :)

I've just realized that the average person, one NOT connected to adoption at all, has no flipping clue about adoption. Unless a person is close to a member of the adoption triad, they think adoption is a happy solution to an infertile couple and an "unwanted" baby.

I have no idea how to change public perspective on this, but if I could, believe me, I would!

startover22 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Synnen

Thanks for sharing :)

I've just realized that the average person, one NOT connected to adoption at all, has no flipping clue about adoption. Unless a person is close to a member of the adoption triad, they think adoption is a happy solution to an infertile couple and an "unwanted" baby.

I have no idea how to change public perspective on this, but if I could, believe me, I would!

I am the average person that only "know" people in this situation, all sides actually. You have changed my perspective, job well done. I would have never thought about the different issues, I would have always thought on the adoptive parents side more than any other if it weren't for this site and mostly your ventures to have your say.

Synnen · Dec 8, 2008, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by startover22

I am the average person that only "know" people in this situation, all sides actually. You have changed my perspective, job well done. I would have never thought about the different issues, I would have always thought on the adoptive parents side more than any other if it weren't for this site and mostly your ventures to have your say.

Thank you.

You have just made my entire day!