[speechlesstx]

What do you think of this?

A proposal by a Roman Catholic bishop in the Netherlands that people of all faiths refer to God as "Allah" is not sitting well with the Catholic community.

Tiny Muskens, an outgoing bishop who is retiring in a few weeks from the southern diocese of Breda, said God doesn't care what he is called.

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah?... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem," Muskens told Dutch television.

"I'm sure his intentions are good but his theology needs a little fine-tuning," said Father Jonathan Morris, a Roman Catholic priest based in Rome. Morris, a news analyst for FOX News Channel, also called the idea impractical.

"Words and names mean things," Morris said. "Referring to God as Allah means something."

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington, D.C.-based Islamic civil liberties and advocacy group, backs the idea as a way to help interfaith understanding.

"It reinforces the fact that Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the same God," Hooper told FOXNews.com. "I don't think the name is as important as the belief in God and following God's moral principles. I think that's true for all faiths."

Christians who are Arabic speakers speak of Allah when they speak of God, Hooper added.

"There's not a theological leap to make on the part of Christians," Hooper said.

The Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago supports the idea.

“I think it will open up doors,” said Janaan Hashim, a spokeswoman for the group representing more than 400,000 Muslim Americans in the Chicago area. “Language is a man-made limitation. I think what God cares about is how we fulfill our purpose in life.”

The nation’s largest Catholic civil rights group says Catholics won't get behind the proposal.

“Bishop Martinus “Tiny” Muskens can pray to “Allah” all he wants, but only addlepated Catholics will follow his lead,” Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, said in a statement. “It is not a good sign when members of the Catholic hierarchy indulge in a fawning exchange with Muslims, or those of any other religion.”

Muskens spent eight years in Indonesia, where he said priests used the word "Allah" during Mass.

Muskens also has drawn attention for other ideas such as encouraging the hungry to steal bread and offering condoms to combat HIV and AIDS.

FOXNews.com's Melissa Drosjack and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Is it a theological leap for Christians and Jews to begin calling God Allah? What doors would it open? Anyone for this idea?

[NeedKarma]

Typical Fox News "report". LOL!

I doubt this story has any legs other than locally where it originated. Please, Fox News is not a news network. :rolleyes:

[excon]

Hello Steve:

I think we should all call God, Moysha.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Typical Fox News "report". LOL!

I doubt this story has any legs other than locally where it originated. Please, Fox News is not a news network. :rolleyes:

Right. So if Fox is the source it's automatically discredited. Try the Melbourne Herald Sun, Chicago Tribune or the Washington Post, does that change the facts for you?

[NeedKarma]

Those are better sources indeed. Same answer though, it's the kind of stuff you find in Yahoo's Oddly Enough section, local colour that screams for attention. There is a cat in my neighbourhood that is yellow and green, I may send the info to the media.

[RickJ]

On the side issue that's broken off here: All the big news people are the same. They report the news with their own slant. Fox is no worse than CNN, MSNBC, etc.

On the OP, I as a Catholic Christian have no problem calling God Allah when I'm speaking to a Muslim.

God has a variety of "valid" names, including Allah, but we should not make it a general rule that we call Him that.

[tomder55]

Tiny Muskens, an outgoing bishop who is retiring in a few weeks from the southern diocese of Breda, said God doesn't care what he is called.

Tiny ? What a fitting name !

The surrender of Breda first occurred in 1625 when the Dutch governor surrendered to the Spanish . It is of interest to us in the US because a group of Protestants seeking religious freedom and to escape the winds of war left Holland to go to the New World . We call them Pilgrims.

I guess this bishop is ushering in the 2nd surrender of Breda .

The long march towards dhimminitude continues . In a short time I suspect that everyone in the Netherlands will be calling God Allah whether they want to or not.

This is a time for Pope Benedict XVI to come out with one of his strong controversial directives;explaining Catholic doctrine , and smack Tiny Muskens down a peg.

[speechlesstx]

Those are better sources indeed. Same answer though, it's the kind of stuff you find in Yahoo's Oddly Enough section, local colour that screams for atention. There is a cat in my neighbourhood that is yellow and green, I may send the info to the media.

NK, that's just plain silly, what makes those "better sources", and if they are "better sources" why would they stake their credibility on reporting some "oddly enough" story that's gained the attention and approval of the Council on American-Islamic Relations? You can dismiss it all you want - but this is no laughing matter.

[NeedKarma]

I don't think it will have the 'legs' required to garner a following that would have christians worlwide either requesting this change or condeming him as a heretic.

[firmbeliever]

Here's my 2 cents-

Just because someone calls God Allah, he does not become a muslim, as stated some Arabs whether Christian or other faiths use the same term in their everyday language when referring to God.
As Fr.Chuck had said in another post that Allah is also referred to a moon God by some people.

Being a muslim is totally different in that it is total submission to the One and Only Creator we refer to as Allah.
We muslims do not see anything changing just by this change in God's name by Christians or Jews as we already believe all monotheistic faiths were in the beginning pure monotheism,but attaching partners to Allah saying He begot a son/daughter etc is what we do not accept.

[speechlesstx]

On the side issue that's broken off here: All the big news people are the same. They report the news with their own slant. Fox is no worse than CNN, MSNBC, etc.

On the OP, I as a Catholic Christian have no problem calling God Allah when I'm speaking to a Muslim.

God has a variety of "valid" names, including Allah, but we should not make it a general rule that we call Him that.

Thanks Rick, I agree on the news comment, and true, Allah is essentially the Arabic term for God. But, I'm not just concerned about the theological difficulties of this bishop's suggestion.

[speechlesstx]

Tiny ? What a fitting name !

The surrender of Breda first occurred in 1625 when the Dutch governor surrendered to the Spanish . It is of interest to us in the US because a group of Protestants seeking religious freedom and to escape the winds of war left Holland to go to the New World . We call them Pilgrims.

I guess this bishop is ushering in the 2nd surrender of Breda .

The long march towards dhimminitude continues . In a short time I suspect that everyone in the Netherlands will be calling God Allah whether they want to or not.

This is a time for Pope Benedict XVI to come out with one of his strong controversial directives;explaining Catholic doctrine , and smack Tiny Muskens down a peg.

So far you seem to be the only one that gets the significance of Tiny's suggestion. I knew you would though.

[NeedKarma]

So far you seem to be the only one that gets the significance of Tiny's suggestion. I knew you would though.

Well you guys do PM and email each other so it's no big stretch there. ;)

[speechlesstx]

Well you guys do PM and email each other so it's no big stretch there. ;)

And again, why would that matter? Tom gets it and you apparently don't - neither is a surprise to me. :D

[tomder55]

I was not aware that private messages could be accessed by others not involved in the exchange. Interesting..


So NK ;what do you think of my selections in the fantasy football draft ?

[NeedKarma]

So NK ;what do you think of my selections in the fantasy football draft ?

N.O. Not sure this is their year.

[tomder55]

Steve ;what I don't get is when did they start calling them Muskins ?

[firmbeliever]

Comments on this post
speechlesstx agrees: Thanks firm, I respect your input. I'm surious though, how would Muslims respond to Christians asking them to call God say, Jehovah?

I was being serious speechlesstx,:)
I do not think muslims will take it lightly if we are asked to call Allah as Jehovah, as we have been asked pointedly to call God(in the Quran), with the best of names(like the Most Merciful etc) and the main name mentioned is Allah.

So I am sure muslims will argue and not take to this new trend anyone wishes to impose.

Correct me if I am wrong but is Jehovah a name used for Christ?
If so then this would be even worse for muslims as this would mean using a name of Jesus(peace be upon him) as Allahs name.

[tomder55]

Jehovah is a name for God in the Old Testament . It is a strange suggestion by a Catholic priest to make this suggestion .

The Catholic creed;with the name Allah substituted for God reads (1st paragraph) :

I believe in Allah, the Father Almighty,
The Creator of heaven and earth,
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord

Now right there is a fundamental irreconcilable disagreement . How does changing the name God to Allah solve that issue ?

Somehow this sounds a lot like submission to me .

[speechlesstx]

Comments on this post
speechlesstx agrees: Thanks firm, I respect your input. I'm surious though, how would Muslims respond to Christians asking them to call God say, Jehovah?

I was being serious speechlesstx,:)
I do not think muslims will take it lightly if we are asked to call Allah as Jehovah, as we have been asked pointedly to call God(in the Quran), with the best of names(like the Most Merciful etc) and the main name mentioned is Allah.

So I am sure muslims will argue and not take to this new trend anyone wishes to impose.

Correct me if I am wrong but is Jehovah a name used for Christ?
If so then this would be even worse for muslims as this would mean using a name of Jesus(peace be upon him) as Allahs name.

Firm, that was a typo, it should have said "curious" - and your answer is not unexpected :)

This entry on Jehovah in the Catholic Encyclopedia should help in understanding the Christian view.