[giani513]

Believe in Jesus and you will be saved... what about all the people with the other beliefs? They can't go to Heaven? What if there were cultures in this world that never got the message about Jesus or Mohammed, etc. Why do most people in these faiths want to try and convince you that they are right and you are wrong?

I believe in God because someone had to create us. Gases just don't appear and combust to form the Universe. I believe Jesus is my savior (not our savior) because of his teachings of Love Thy Neighbor and Do Unto Others. Do I think he was the son of God? I don't know. I mean I am me, and my father is my father, but I am not my father. God created life, God created Mary, yet Mary is the Mother of God?

My beliefs on Heaven and Hell: All people will go to Heaven, unless they have sinned and show no remorse. I feel Hitler could be in Heaven right now, because my God is a loving and forgiving God. And who are we to argue with God if Hitler is there?

This is not to offend people or to start arguments. I especially do not want people to reply to tell me I'm wrong. Tell me what you believe and we can have a good conversation. Faith is for each individual to decide what works best for them. As long as you have faith, because what else will get you through the hard times.

Peace to all!

[firmbeliever]

I think Islam is the right religion because-

There is only One God/Allah (which means One God in Arabic).
Allah is neither a man or a woman , He cannot be compared to any of the created beings, He never begot nor was He begotten.
He is the most merciful and most just, and no one else can take the burden of another persons wrong doing.
He will not unjustly punish those who did not receive the message of Islamic monotheism.

The religion is the same religion of monotheism from the time of Adam through Abraham,Noah,Moses,Jesus till Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

Islam teaches man/woman that everything we do from the time we sleep till we wake up if we remember Allah and our intention is to please Him and folllow the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him) then all our deeds will be rewarded.
Muslims are not muslims only when he/she prays but everything we do from the birth of a baby till we bury a person in his grave are given guidelines to follow.How we clean ourselves to how we interact with people, how we should gain knowledge to how to rule a state.
Allah forgives those who repent sincerely except setting up partners with Him (even that ,if He wills may forgive)

Another thing is that none of us are guaranteed Paradise/Heaven except those mentioned specifically in the Quran (like the Prophets,messengers,Mary the mother of Jesus, the wife of Pharaoh etc-peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all ).
It is out of Allah's mercy that we are admitted to Paradise. We believe He is the Most Just, hence those who have done an atoms weight of good shall see it, and those who have done an atoms weight of bad shall see it (not in this world,but the Hereafter).

Everyone will have their due on the Day of Judgement and if anyone has wronged or been wronged by others shall see it.That would be the ultimate justice.

These are some of the reasons I believe in my faith, I do not mind if others do not agree with my belief, it is my belief and I embrace it with all my heart.:)

[Capuchin]

What's the point of having a religion if you don't think it's right?

Nobody has a religion because they think it might be right, or because they think it's wrong but go along with it anyway (okay some people might, but they're not likely to insist that they're right if this is the case). If nobody thinks that it's right, then it's not a religion.

[Curlyben]

One word answers this question; DOGMA.

[Wondergirl]

I especially agree with the "Love Thy Neighbor and Do Unto Others" part of what you said. But I think we have to be careful that we don't get all bunched up in "doing" and "Do I do enough?" and "Am I good enough?"--to the point that we worry about our actions earning us God's favor and getting us into heaven. I don't believe that's what it's all about, earning points with good deeds.

Better to BE a loving, giving person, having your focus on others, "find yourself by losing yourself," desiring to make life somehow a little better for others.

Then the "doing" will take care of itself.

[Choux]

Giani, you have made up your own denomination of Christianity. It has been my contention for a long time that Christians believe whatever they want to believe... that is one of Christianity's strengths... it's FLEXIBLE!

If you don't like hell, to hell with it!!

If you don't like the virgin birth, screw it!

And, so on...

The most important structure for a human being is to have excellent ethics/morality. Then, you can't go wrong.

[talaniman]

I think you can take something good from any religion, but I generally stay away from the pomp, and ceremony, and tradition, and as Ben puts it, the dogma.

[Nechi44]

Believe in Jesus and you will be saved...what about all the people with the other beliefs? They can't go to Heaven? What if there were cultures in this world that never got the message about Jesus or Mohammed, etc.? Why do most people in these faiths want to try and convince you that they are right and you are wrong?

I believe in God because someone had to create us. Gases just don't appear and combust to form the Universe. I believe Jesus is my savior (not our savior) because of his teachings of Love Thy Neighbor and Do Unto Others. Do I think he was the son of God? I don't know. I mean I am me, and my father is my father, but I am not my father. God created life, God created Mary, yet Mary is the Mother of God?

My beliefs on Heaven and Hell: All people will go to Heaven, unless they have sinned and show no remorse. I feel Hitler could be in Heaven right now, because my God is a loving and forgiving God. And who are we to argue with God if Hitler is there?

This is not to offend people or to start arguments. I especially do not want people to reply to tell me I'm wrong. Tell me what you believe and we can have a good conversation. Faith is for each individual to decide what works best for them. As long as you have faith, because what else will get you through the hard times.

Peace to all!

Well said! If everyone says that one should follow his religion to get redumption or go to heaven, what about other living things? Do the dogs and the buffellows not go to heaven?

You get what you pay for! Your good deeds will take you to the Paradise. In fact, when we go to the Heaven, we will see only innocent beings, not Christians, Muslims, Jews or people of any religion for that matter! God does not discriminate among religions. If one says that his is the best religion, then he is no more than an atheist!

[savedsinner7]

As far as Mary being the mother of God, here's how I understand this.

God created Mary. Mary is human. God put His Spirit in Mary and she conceived. Jesus is fully human and fully God at the same time. That is how He was able to bridge the gap for us and make a way to God.

[margog85]

Religion exists because people are uncomfortable with uncertainty. Any group that proports to have all the answers to the big questions of life will attract people who ask those questions but are too uncomfortable to say they JUST DON'T KNOW and probably never will.

Religious people need to believe they are right, because their religion is their way to answer those daunting questions of meaning, purpose, existence, etc. So if they don't believe totally and completely that they are totally and completely right, the role of religion in their lives is completely defeated.

And why do they work so hard to convince others that their way is the right way? *shrug* I mean, they'll say, and possibly even believe, it's because their belief has brought them peace and comfort and happiness, and they just want to share it. But realistically, there's power in numbers. The more people who agree with you, the more right you feel. And that then brings more peace, comfort and happiness because another person agrees with you so this MUST be true!

[inthebox]

It is not only in religion that individuals feel they are right.

Its in politics [ conservatives, liberals ]

Sports [ kobe bryant is the best, no steve nash is... ]

In music [ rappers talking of other rappers for example ]

In universities [ Ward churchill for example ]

In automobiles [ Ford vs Chevy for exmple ]

In marriage [ sorry , bad example, the wife is always right :) ]

etc..


But Christians are to believe in the Biblical standard. Without standards and absolute truths it is man made. Read, educate yourself, discuss, but most importantly believe, trust, live it through a personal relationship with the Savior.





Grace and peace

[margog85]

"But Christians are to believe in the Biblical standard. Without standards and absolute truths it is man made."

Ohhhhh man. But belief in the bible as a standard and absolute truth is a belief held by one particular religion… who's to say that there IS an absolute truth? Adherence to Biblical standards as the 'right' way is a perspective applicable to those who consider the Bible to be the word of God… which includes Christians only…

Basically, it seems that you're presenting all other types of situations in which individuals believe they are always right, and saying that neither really are, they all just have their own opinions and THINK they are right. And they want to convince everyone else of that due to what I mentioned before… the more people who agree with you, the more confident you are that you know what you're talking about and really are right… strength in numbers.

But then, in the case of Christianity, as we all have access to the Bible, which is the be-all-and-end-all truth, those who disagree… well, they're just wrong! Everything else is a matter of opinion, except for that which is disclosed in the Bible- because it's there in black and white and is an 'absolute truth'- and since we've all been told the Bible is the word of god, then hey! It IS the word of God, and it's just inarguable fact… right?

To say that 'without standards and absolute truth it is man made' is to say that the Bible WITHOUT QUESTION contains the absolute truth. And so Christians are entitled to believe that they are right, and it's acceptable to attempt to convert others to their perspective, because they are the only ones who accept the absolute truth of the Bible as God's word. Since they have the TRUTH, then obviously they have the RIGHT to force it upon others… and with this perspective, I can easily foresee another crusade in our future. Scary.

My belief is that the Bible is man-made. Maybe parts, or hell (oops... I mean 'heck'), even all if it, were 'inspired' by some divine source out there somewhere... for your comfort, we can call it god. But the Bible was not written BY god. It was written by people. It is a combination of many individuals' interpretation of what they thought god was trying to communicate. And, if Christians believe we are all imperfect beings, made in god's image but flawed by sin, then how can they presume that an imperfect person could comprehend, grasp, and communicate what an all-powerful god wants/thinks/feels/expects of humanity, and transcribe it with any accuracy or certainty? And it is entirely absurd to believe that human beliefs, prejudices, biases, agendas and ideas were not in any way integrated into this book… let's be realistic!

Not to mention translation after translation from language to language- don't you think that impacts anything? And the way that scholars still debate over interpretations and translation and meaning…

I can't put much stock in a book that has gone through so many people, so many hands, so many translations, and is still debated over today… and live my life based on the 'standards' I personally believe it presents- (because with all the debate around certain translations and interpretations of the Bible, you still have to ultimately choose what YOU take from it and what you don't). And all that really is, honestly, is another way that people are looking for justification for their beliefs and reinforcement that they are right- Because they have a HOLY BOOK to back them up now, and it's from GOD HIMSELF!!

So if there's strength in numbers, then imagine how confident you can be in your beliefs being the only ones that are valid when you have the WRITTEN backing of God!

I understand that this is what Christians believe, and I'm not trying to be judgmental- you believe you're right, and why wouldn't you? If you're going to believe something, then you're not going to believe it and base your life around it if you think that you might be wrong… which is why I don't follow any one religion or make any definitive statements about the existence or nature of a god that I can't validate without doubt. 'Faith' is just not my thing, and I feel like it's an easy out when we hit a question that has no answer, or an answer that just doesn't make sense, but we're tired of searching.

But please don't present it in this way, it is condescending… to draw up a comparison of all other situations in which people think they're right, and in all those cases it's a matter of opinion… but then when it comes to religion, to say that Christians have absolute truth, they have the Bible to back their beliefs, their religion is not man-made… so they obviously have the upper hand in the realm of the 'who's right, who's wrong' debate that's been going on for ages.

Not cool. So please stop it.

[inthebox]

Margog 85


"Since they have the TRUTH, then obviously they have the RIGHT to force it upon others… and with this perspective, I can easily foresee another crusade in our future. Scary."

-- there is no force, everybody has free choice.


I understand that this is what Christians believe, and I'm not trying to be judgmental- you believe you're right, and why wouldn't you?

-- "judgmental" - what was your whole post about?

"But please don't present it in this way, it is condescending… to draw up a comparison of all other situations in which people think they're right, and in all those cases it's a matter of opinion… but then when it comes to religion, to say that Christians have absolute truth, they have the Bible to back their beliefs, their religion is not man-made… so they obviously have the upper hand in the realm of the 'who's right, who's wrong' debate that's been going on for ages.

Not cool. So please stop it."


Please stop what? Believing what I do, or expressing my opinion, or belief's?

If you do not believe what Christians believe, that is your choice.

You like Ford , I like Chevy or vice versa, that's cool.




Grace and peace

[margog85]

I did not intend to indicate that YOU personally were trying to force anything upon anyone, even though your post did come across that way. If I misinterpreted your post, then I apologize. I can say from experience, however, that a fair number of Christians (and hey, lump my parents into that bunch as well so no one feels I'm blindly attacking anonymous people… they do it too!) feel it is their Christian duty to 'evangelize'- and if that just meant sharing their beliefs and engaging in intellectual debate, and then leaving people the freedom to decide on their own without condescendingly telling them that they'll 'pray for them to someday find the truth'… that would be fine. But to hound people, walk up to people on the street and tell them that they are going to hell and hand them a pamphlet with all the details of how they can save their souls… I'm sorry, but that IS judgmental and disrespectful, that IS forceful and pushy… and while I have a choice, and everyone has a choice… if people believe that it is RIGHT to be forceful, because it is what they believe and they believe their way is the only way, that is a dangerous thing. The Holocaust. The Crusades. Devastating results.

And my post was not judgmental- I was stating my beliefs, and why I feel it is not right for another to push their beliefs upon me. I never once stated that Christians are wrong- I simply pointed out what I believe to be flawed logic within the structure of Christian religious beliefs and what I see as an over-dependence on the Bible. If it was perceived to be a judgment against Christians, again, I apologize for that. But my 'entire post' was not judgmental or about judging anyone. When you make the statement, 'Read, educate yourself, discuss, but most importantly believe, trust, live it through a personal relationship with the Savior', that comes across as condescending- that people need to read and educate themselves, and then come to the conclusion that they NEED to trust, and have a personal relationship with Jesus because 'that is the most important thing'- to Christians, perhaps. But since you didn't qualify your statement in that way, it came across as preachy and pushy.

If this was not your intent, then I apologize for understanding it in this way and then proceeding in a response based on a misunderstanding. But also try to understand that in a forum where we are expressing our ideas and thoughts in writing, clarity and proper wording of what you are trying to express is essential... and by the way your response was worded, it gave off that impression.

And lastly… please don't take on the role of a victim or martyr. I'm not attacking you, I'm not trying to tell you not to believe what you do. You wrote… 'Please stop what? Believing what I do, or expressing my opinion, or belief's?' But why oh why was this 'question' necessary? I explained exactly what I asked to be stopped:

'But please don't present it in this way, it is condescending… to draw up a comparison of all other situations in which people think they're right, and in all those cases it's a matter of opinion… but then when it comes to religion, to say that Christians have absolute truth, they have the Bible to back their beliefs, their religion is not man-made… so they obviously have the upper hand in the realm of the 'who's right, who's wrong' debate that's been going on for ages.'

I asked you to stop presenting your religion in a way that is condescending to those of other beliefs, setting up a list of topics in which people think there is a 'right' and 'wrong' belief when there's really not, and then bringing in Christianity as something totally different from those other examples because, apparently, based on your presentation of your statement, Christianity really IS the right thing, and people just don't know it… and then stating that 'the important thing' is to believe in Jesus. Say that to YOU, or to CHRISTIANS, the important thing is to believe in Jesus. But don't make a blanket statement like that. It's not important to me, so don't assume it is!

That's all I asked you to stop doing, and not just you personally, but all Christians and… hey, all religious people in general. I am plenty comfortable with an exchange of ideas and statements about what people believe, whether I agree or not. So don't put words into my mouth as though I asked you to change your beliefs or not talk about them. That, my friend, is a silly thing to say.

Obviously if I did not believe in open communication, I would not have posted in this forum to begin with.

[shygrneyzs]

I quit taking part in these kinds of "discussions" because no matter what is said, it invariably ticks someone else off and then goes the fight.

But I will answer this question you had - if you had never heard about salvation in Christ, never had it preached, been ministered to in any fashion, you are not responsible. You have to hear the Word before even being able to accept it and you have to accept it before even being saved. We will all be surprised when we meet God. But I will disagree with you about Hitler. While God could forgive him, as far as anyone knows, Hitler always believed he was right with a capital R.

[margarita_momma]

No one is right and no one is wrong. Everyone is intitled to his or her opinion. Come on just leave it at that guys... ;)

[margog85]

Man oh man-
Okay, for the record, I'm not saying I'm right and anyone else is wrong.
I'm not being judgmental.
I'm not telling people they can't say what they think or believe, and I'm not telling anyone to change what they believe.
Okay? Good. Now, let's move on...

[inthebox]

margog85:

I am sorry. I did not intend to offend you. :(




Grace and Peace

[margog85]

inthebox

Don't worry about it.

All is well.

:)

[rosends]

One of the reasons I'm so happy as a Jew is that Judaism doesn't say that Judaism is right for everyone -- just right for those who are Jews.