[speechlesstx]

Seems the Dems' worries keep increasing. First it was talk of how success in Iraq would be a problem for them, now their front runner has them concerned about hurting the rest of their slate.

Looking past the presidential nomination fight, Democratic leaders quietly fret that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton at the top of their 2008 ticket could hurt candidates at the bottom.

They say the former first lady might be too polarizing for much of the country. She could jeopardize the party's standing with independent voters and give Republicans who otherwise might stay home on Election Day a reason to vote, they worry.

In more than 40 interviews, Democratic candidates, consultants and party chairs from every region pointed to internal polls that give Clinton strikingly high unfavorable ratings in places with key congressional and state races.

"I'm not sure it would be fatal in Indiana, but she would be a drag" on many candidates, said Democratic state Rep. Dave Crooks of Washington, Ind.

Unlike Crooks, most Democratic leaders agreed to talk frankly about Clinton's political coattails only if they remained anonymous, fearing reprisals from the New York senator's campaign. They all expressed admiration for Clinton, and some said they would publicly support her fierce fight for the nomination -- despite privately held fears.

The chairman of a Midwest state party called Clinton a nightmare for congressional and state legislative candidates.

A Democratic congressman from the West, locked in a close re-election fight, said Clinton is the Democratic candidate most likely to cost him his seat.

A strategist with close ties to leaders in Congress said Democratic Senate candidates in competitive races would be strongly urged to distance themselves from Clinton.

"The argument with Hillary right now in some of these red states is she's so damn unpopular," said Andy Arnold, chairman of the Greenville, S.C. Democratic Party. "I think Hillary is someone who could drive folks on the other side out to vote who otherwise wouldn't."

"Republicans are upset with their candidates," Arnold added, "but she will make up for that by essentially scaring folks to the polls."

In national surveys, Clinton's lead over chief rival Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois has widened. Her advantage is much narrower where it counts most -- in early voting states such as Iowa and New Hampshire. In matchups against potential GOP presidential candidates, Clinton leads or is tied.

Looks like Hillary is a nightmare for both sides, those who think she's may cost them the house or the Senate, and those who think she's just plain scary. So what's a Democrat to do now? Obama, "the Great Contender"? They're concerned he may flame- out. But hey, he'll look fabulous doing it...

[tomder55]

Steve ;

I think you could point a finger at the Kossacks and their stooge in this election ,John Edwards for authorship . The big surprise here is that AP would publish it.

Hillary must have lots of angst . First she's not black enough and now her electability is questioned and even if she is elected does her petticoat have sufficient tails to carry the rest of the party ?

The sorry truth is from a spectrum perspective she is about as centrist as you get from the Dems. Now part of that is deception as manifested in her fake toughness in foreign policy ,and some of that comes from the false impression that she would be the heir to her hubbies generally centralist economic legacy (at least he was a free trader ) . You would think that all of their performances at the NFL-CIO "debate " would dissuade anyone from that illusion.

[speechlesstx]

Steve ;

I think you could point a finger at the Kossacks and their stooge in this election ,John Edwards for authorship . The big surprise here is that AP would publish it.

It actually doesn't surprise me, al-AP has been doing a lot of odd things lately.

Hillary must have lots of angst . First she's not black enough and now her electability is questioned and even if she is elected does her petticoat have sufficient tails to carry the rest of the party ?

Ya think? :D

[Dark_crow]

Seems the Dems' worries keep increasing. First it was talk of how success in Iraq would be a problem for them, now their front runner has them concerned about hurting the rest of their slate.



Looks like Hillary is a nightmare for both sides, those who think she's may cost them the house or the Senate, and those who think she's just plain scary. So what's a Democrat to do now? Obama, "the Great Contender"? They're concerned he may flame- out. But hey, he'll look fabulous doing it...

America is not ready for a Black, or Female President; especially in time of turmoil.

[iamgrowler]

America is not ready for a Black, or Female President; especially in time of turmoil.

I have to disagree on both points.

Firstly, Obama has something none of the other candidates from either of the two mainstream parties has -- Being a first term Senator, he has a relatively clean slate.

(Being a charismatic, eloquent and intelligent public speaker works to his advantage as well.)

And this makes him a very appealing candidate to those fed up with the antics (voting records) and stances of the rest of the field.

Then again, to a thinking person, the absence of baggage will likely translate to a lack of experience.

As for Hillary, it isn't her gender that makes her so unappealing -- It's her abrasive personality, voting record and connection to Bill Clinton -- Most people I talk to have had enough of Presidential dynasties.

What this country needs more than anything else is a breather from familial dynasties and Red Neck Crackers from Texas and 'The South'.

That isn't to say all folks living South of the Manson/Nixon Line or those who hail from Texas are Crackers -- But being a Red Neck Cracker certainly seems to be a prerequisite for election to higher office in those necks of the woods.

[Dark_crow]

I have to disagree on both points.

Firstly, Obama has something none of the other candidates from either of the two mainstream parties has -- Being a first term Senator, he has a relatively clean slate.

(Being a charismatic, eloquent and intelligent public speaker works to his advantage as well.)

And this makes him a very appealing candidate to those fed up with the antics (voting records) and stances of the rest of the field.

Then again, to a thinking person, the absence of baggage will likely translate to a lack of experience.

As for Hillary, it isn't her gender that makes her so unappealing -- It's her abrasive personality, voting record and connection to Bill Clinton -- Most people I talk to have had enough of Presidential dynasties.

What this country needs more than anything else is a breather from familial dynasties and Red Neck Crackers from Texas and 'The South'.

That isn't to say all folks living South of the Manson/Nixon Line or those who hail from Texas are Crackers -- But being a Red Neck Cracker certainly seems to be a prerequisite for election to higher office in those necks of the woods.

Well, people are not going to come out and say they are against a Black, of female President, that’s for sure. But if you take a look at the bias that still exists, it appears telling to me.

[iamgrowler]

Well, people are not going to come out and say they are against a Black, of female President, that’s for sure. But if you take a look at the bias that still exists, it appears telling to me.

Being from the 'Left Coast', I'm not seeing the bias.

And posting from the capital of the 'Left Coast' as you are, I have to wonder where exactly this backwoods bastion where centrist views are apparently still allowed is located.

[Dark_crow]

Being from the 'Left Coast', I'm not seeing the bias.

And posting from the capital of the 'Left Coast' as you are, I have to wonder where exactly this backwoods bastion where centrist views are apparently still allowed is located.

Your question reminds of the time when I when I was growing up, I mean by that elementary and High school in Oceanside, San Diego County. Occasionally I would hear about race relations and so forth. But we didn’t have any of the problems like, different bathroom for blacks, different drinking fountains, or the like. Blacks played on the football team and sat where they liked in the movies. I believed these race stories was from a different country than America. This was in the 1950s, which as I know now, were violent Racial times in much of the country.;)

[ETWolverine]

Obama is imploding. Edwards is a lightweight. The rest of the Dems are all there for comic relief. The only serious contender left from the Dems is Hillary. Not because she's so good, but because she hasn't had a major screwup yet. Emphasis on "yet".

That said, there is something to be said for the argument that she is a danger to her own party. Certainly she hasn't been left-leaning enough to satisfy the moveon.org/Michael Moore types.

But think of it this way: if she is the only game in town for the far left wing of the Dem party, wouldn't they bite the bullet and vote for her rather than grant support to her Republican opponent? And if that is true, she won't really have lost them in terms of losing their votes.

On the other side, we have the moderate Dems. They will have a tougher choice: Hillary vs. Giuliani or Hillary vs. Fred Thompson.

But the difference is that moderates, by their very nature, will be willing to vote for whoever looks best to them at every level. That means that the moderate state-level and Congressional candidates won't really lose the support of their moderates, even if Hillary is seen as either too far too the left or too far to the right. Moderates, in my experience, vote the candidate, not the party. Hillary's candidacy for President won't necessarily mean a shift of moderates at the congressional level.

So, I don't really agree that Hillary is necessarily a danger to the Dem party. I think that the Dem politicians as a whole are a danger to the Dem party. They are losing their moderates by shifting too far to the left... a mistake that Hillary has not yet made. Moderates don't like to vote too far to either side... that's what makes them moderates. But the Dems have been making a leftward shift for 4 years now, and they are losing their moderates because of it. Hillary isn't the danger to the Dems. The Dems are the real danger to the Dems.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

What this country needs more than anything else is a breather from familial dynasties and Red Neck Crackers from Texas and 'The South'.

That isn't to say all folks living South of the Manson/Nixon Line or those who hail from Texas are Crackers -- But being a Red Neck Cracker certainly seems to be a prerequisite for election to higher office in those necks of the woods.

I guess I'm a "Red Neck Cracker." Funny how you speak of Obama being "charismatic, eloquent and intelligent" just prior to disparaging those of us in the south. I can tell you as a "Red Neck Cracker" from Texas that I don't have a need to vote for another "Red Neck Cracker," I intend to vote for the best candidate that has a shot at winning, which at this time appears to be Rudy.

But, it is precisely your attitude that makes us leery of "left coasters" and northeastern politicians, that smug attitude is not welcome here. Your values are not our values in so many areas, we resent that liberal/progressive air of superiority that's so often on display and we especially hate Yankee politicians that come to the south and pull out their "sho 'nuff, y'all" accents like Hillary does.

Other than that, we don't care about your gender, your color or where you're from :D

[Dark_crow]

I guess I'm a "Red Neck Cracker." Funny how you speak of Obama being "charismatic, eloquent and intelligent" just prior to disparaging those of us in the south. I can tell you as a "Red Neck Cracker" from Texas that I don't have a need to vote for another "Red Neck Cracker," I intend to vote for the best candidate that has a shot at winning, which at this time appears to be Rudy.

But, it is precisely your attitude that makes us leery of "left coasters" and northeastern politicians, that smug attitude is not welcome here. Your values are not our values in so many areas, we resent that liberal/progressive air of superiority that's so often on display and we especially hate Yankee politicians that come to the south and pull out their "sho 'nuff, y'all" accents like Hillary does.

Other than that, we don't care about your gender, your color or where you're from :D

Hell, that comment could almost pass as coming from David Ernest Duke a former member of the Louisiana House of Representatives, a candidate in presidential primaries for both the Democratic and Republican parties, and former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan:eek:

[speechlesstx]

Hell, that comment could almost pass as coming from David Ernest Duke a former member of the Louisiana House of Representatives, a candidate in presidential primaries for both the Democratic and Republican parties, and former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan:eek:

DC, you should know better than that. I have never demonstrated even a hint of racism on this board, that other place or in this post. It speaks only of the arrogant, dismissive attitude that we in the southern part of the country are a bunch of racist, illiterate, white, "Red Neck" bumpkins. And until those people that insist on portraying and thinking of us as such stop that insulting behavior and honor our values, we will continue to reject their candidates no matter their color or gender.

[Dark_crow]

DC, you should know better than that. I have never demonstrated even a hint of racism on this board, that other place or in this post. It speaks only of the arrogant, dismissive attitude that we in the southern part of the country are a bunch of racist, illiterate, white, "Red Neck" bumpkins. And until those people that insist on portraying and thinking of us as such stop that insulting behavior and honor our values, we will continue to reject their candidates no matter their color or gender.

C’mon…”That isn't to say all folks living South of the Manson/Nixon Line or those who hail from Texas are Crackers “

The response covered your objection before you responded.

Agreed, I have never heard you say you make a racist remark. However, right wingers are traditionally racist and sexist, while “Left coasters” are not. I refer you to my post #8

[speechlesstx]

C’mon…”That isn't to say all folks living South of the Manson/Nixon Line or those who hail from Texas are Crackers “

The response covered your objection before you responded.

But you omitted the latter half, "But being a Red Neck Cracker certainly seems to be a prerequisite for election to higher office in those necks of the woods." Coupled with the opening salvo, "What this country needs more than anything else is a breather from familial dynasties and Red Neck Crackers from Texas and 'The South', that was a rather weak qualifier.

Agreed, I have never heard you say you make a racist remark. However, right wingers are traditionally racist and sexist, while “Left coasters” are not. I refer you to my post #8

This may be a shocker, but this kid from a "right wing evangelical conservative" background that grew up at the height of the civil rights movement in the 60's, was (and still is) a white minority in his Texas neighborhood. Almost all of my friends had a different color of skin than my own. I didn't know anything about racism or sexism. It wasn't until I grew up, got married and had a family did I learn from the left that I was intolerant, racist, sexist scum because I'm a white, male, heterosexual, evangelical conservative. Now, ain't that a kick coming from those who tell me not to judge others?

[Dark_crow]

But you omitted the latter half, "But being a Red Neck Cracker certainly seems to be a prerequisite for election to higher office in those necks of the woods." Coupled with the opening salvo, "What this country needs more than anything else is a breather from familial dynasties and Red Neck Crackers from Texas and 'The South', that was a rather weak qualifier.



This may be a shocker, but this kid from a "right wing evangelical conservative" background that grew up at the height of the civil rights movement in the 60's, was (and still is) a white minority in his Texas neighborhood. Almost all of my friends had a different color of skin than my own. I didn't know anything about racism or sexism. It wasn't until I grew up, got married and had a family did I learn from the left that I was intolerant, racist, sexist scum because I'm a white, male, heterosexual, evangelical conservative. Now, ain't that a kick coming from those who tell me not to judge others?

“When Lincoln High School traveled to the city of Vidor for a football game in the 1960s they were greeted by burning crosses and a police escort.”

You must have been born into a recluse family not to have experienced your environment.

Whatever the case, I’m glad for you; but that does not change the fact that as a group…right wingers are traditionally racist and sexist, while “Left coasters” are not.

[CaptainRich]

It actually doesn't surprise me, al-AP has been doing a lot of odd things lately.



Ya think? :D

Did she sit on something? I don't think it was a happy meal.. lol

[speechlesstx]

“When Lincoln High School traveled to the city of Vidor for a football game in the 1960s they were greeted by burning crosses and a police escort.”

You must have been born into a recluse family not to have experienced your environment.

You're not helping your case here, that's more than a rather insulting remark. My family is anything but reclusive. In case you didn't know, Texas is a big, diverse state. Vidor is 657 miles from here. That's 22 miles further than the distance from Bangor, Maine to Baltimore - halfway across Maine, past New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware. Not exactly local news.

Whatever the case, I’m glad for you; but that does not change the fact that as a group…right wingers are traditionally racist and sexist, while “Left coasters” are not.

Even if that's so, what does that have to do with today? For example, this president has had the first African American Secretary of State, the first female African American National Security Adviser, the first female African American Secretary of State, the first African American Secretary of Education, the first Female Asian American Secretary of Labor and the first Hispanic American Attorney General. Has anyone noticed?

[Dark_crow]

You're not helping your case here, that's more than a rather insulting remark. My family is anything but reclusive. In case you didn't know, Texas is a big, diverse state. Vidor is 657 miles from here. That's 22 miles further than the distance from Bangor, Maine to Baltimore - halfway across Maine, past New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware. Not exactly local news.



Even if that's so, what does that have to do with today? For example, this president has had the first African American Secretary of State, the first female African American National Security Adviser, the first female African American Secretary of State, the first African American Secretary of Education, the first Female Asian American Secretary of Labor and the first Hispanic American Attorney General. Has anyone noticed?

Look, you may feed someone else this poppy-cock story of having learned about racism from the “Left” when you were an adult, but given that Texas was a slave state and the following news items, I refuse to buy it.

A delegation of leaders from the African American community that included Arthur DeWitty, Rev. B. L. McCormick, Mrs. Friendly R. Rice, and Dr. Beadie E. Conner requests that the two “For Whites Only” signs be removed from the basement of the Travis County Courthouse. [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960; The Austin Statesman, “Courthouse Integration Complete,” March 01, 1960]

White and African American students from several area colleges picket businesses on Congress Avenue urging “integration of lunch counters.” [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960; The Dallas Morning News, “Student Pickets in Austin Ask for Integration,” April 28, 1960]

African American and white University of Texas students at Austin stage three demonstrations against the segregated Texas Theater on the main campus. [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (1)-University of Texas; The Texas Observer, “Students Demonstrate Against Texas Theater,” December 09, 1960s]

The Travis County Grand Jury indicts University students John Winborn and William H. McKnight for setting off a homemade bomb outside an integrationist meeting at The University of Texas YMCA. [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (1)-University of Texas; The American-Statesman, “Pair Indicted in Bombing,” December 04, 1960]

Integrationists conduct stand-ins at the Texas and Varsity Theaters on the Drag near The University of Texas campus area. [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960s; The Austin American, “Stand-ins Continue on Drag,” December 14, 1960]

Rev. Buck, a priest in charge of St. James Episcopal Church, carried a sign stating: “The segregation policy of St. Andrew's Episcopal School is unfair to Negro Episcopals. Do not support segregation.” [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960s; The Austin Statesman, “Pickets Walk in Front of Episcopal School,” April 20, 1961]

Five hundred African American students are eligible to transfer to white schools as a result of the Austin ISD Board of Education's decision to continue its desegregation policy into the elementary schools. [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960s; The Austin Statesman, “500 Negro 6th Graders Can Enter White Schools,” July 11, 1961]

Houston public swimming pools integrate, June 7th. Houston Mayor Lewis Cutrer orders that Houston municipal pools be open to blacks. The city had already desegregated all public buildings in 1962. Parks and municipal golf courses had previously been opened to all races. City pools are the last of the municipal facilities to eliminate segregation. [Scrapbook Collection: News Clippings Recreation Department 1963; AR Z.025]

On May 10th, Superintendent Irby B. Carruth issues a letter to all parents announcing that Austin Independent School District would “no longer have schools for children of different races.” The U.S. Office of Education had accepted the school desegregation plan, whose adoption was begun in 1955 and completed in 1963. Now all students had to make a “choice.” [AF-Segregation-Public Schools-S1700 (2)-1960s]


And you wonder why I suggested you must be from a recluse family…

[speechlesstx]

Look, you may feed someone else this poppy-cock story of having learned about racism from the “Left” when you were an adult, but given that Texas was a slave state and the following news items, I refuse to buy it.

Dark, that's precisely what I've been talking about here - judging us on ignorant assumptions. It doesn't really matter what you think is a "poppy-cock story", I'm the one that has lived this life. You can post all the 1960-1961 Austin stories you want and it won't change the fact that I was born in 1960, lived 528 miles north of Austin, and therefore didn't have a clue about what was happening there. Geez, what's a guy got to do to convince someone these days? Amarillo is not Austin, is not Vidor, is not Selma or Atlanta. My first teacher was Hispanic as were most of my classmates and friends for the first 6 years. The only real difference between us was I didn't understand the conversation when my friends and their parents spoke Spanish, and we didn't eat menudo at home.

I'm sure my parents and older siblings were more aware of events, but we were not "reclusive" and I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insulting my family and myself as such. We were a nice, outgoing, fun-loving, fairly well traveled, lower middle class, conservative, non-racist family living in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. I can't help it if you find that hard to believe, but it's the truth.

And by the way, I didn't say I learned about racism from the left when I was an adult, I said I didn't learn I was racist until they labeled me as such - based on their intolerant ignorance. I'm just sick and tired of being called hick, redneck, racist, homophobic, bigoted, "FundiEv" and all other manner of BS by a group of people that advocate "tolerance" and don't know the first thing about me. I would have hoped that you wouldn't join in on the insults.

[BABRAM]

Forty-seven years plus later and since segregation, Austin by comparison is the most diverse major college city in Texas. In fact it ranks 4th in the nation according to the University of Texas Longhorns official website. Travis county has voted overwhelmingly Democrat the past four elections that I know of, maybe longer.


Profiles in Diversity : Diverse People and Ideas



Bobby