[cjonline]

I’m a single mother of two boys, 10 and 9. I was separated from my ex for three years; the divorce was just made final at the beginning of the year. It was nasty and hard on the three of us but we got through it. Their father has not been around—he has only seen them a handful of times in the past three years; he shows no interest in the boys, no visitation, no calling, no gifts for birthdays or Christmas, etc; nor will he help out when I ask. I’m not seeing anyone, nor have I since I split from their father. My oldest is in counseling, has been since my ex and I split up.

Now down to my problem… Both of boys are a tad spoiled, they pretty much get what they want, but they do what they are told for the most part right away. They have a few weekly chores, their homework etc all gets done the first time I ask. But they fight with each other all the time. Mostly it’s yelling and door slamming but lately, the past several months, it’s hitting and pushing. I can’t stand it. Their fine to me, adults, their friends, and other kids but towards each other they are getting really bad. They each have their own room and they each have “mommy time” about an hour I spend with just the one child or the other and we do things together fine, its only when I leave the room they start in on each other. They don’t whine to me or complain about it though. Yesterday I caught them rolling around on the floor punching each other, they were both covered in scratches and bruises this morning. Yet they won't tell me why it started, I get “its brother stuff” I called my dad and he says its just them being boys they will get over it. I can’t wait until they “get over it”. I talked to a co-worker and he said that I should make them share a room for a while; make them get along. I can do that but it doesn't sound right either. Any thoughts?

[sGt HarDKorE]

Maybe I can help, my twin bro and I (im a boy too) fight a lot. The only time we don't fight is when I don't see him, or we are doing something together, such as a sport, camping, etc... Maybe have them do more stuff together, but don't put them in the same room... I would hate my mom for life if she did that... I need my privacy and we live totally different lives. He stays up late till about 3am on school nights while I try to go to bed at 10:30-11:00. I get all A's, and he gets all C's and D's. That mommy time thing is nice, I never talk to my mom really. When I was younger, she would always be working so I kind of grew reallyfar away from her. And well aside from that difference, my brother's and my life is just like your sons. Are father is horrible, won't pay for anythng and doesn't believe in college or education. My brother has gone to counsolling off and on. I think your best bet is have them go camping for a week and have them share a tent. My brother and I are fine when we are camping, playing on the same sport teams, etc, so just get them involves with each other, but understand they are 2 different people and that they may not want to be with each other all the time.

[NowWhat]

I do think a lot of it is "brother stuff". My sister and I fought a lot when we were younger. We fought - physically - about clothes and shoes - I have the battle scars to prove it. But, we are close now.

I know you said you are divorced - but is their dad in the picture? Can he help?
Try talking to them - maybe separately and ask them why they fight with each other. Then when you have an understanding - talk to them together, sort of like a family meeting.
Good Luck.

[SpawnOfAzazel]

They will learn fast when you take away a privilege every time they fight, such as television or video games. It doesn't matter who starts it, both lose the privilege for a day, or however long you see fit. If they can get along, give them the privilege back. Works like a charm, it did for me and my siblings.

[cjonline]

Thanks for the input.

NowWhat -- No my ex is not around. He has not seen the boys in 6months and he went 17 months without seeing them before that. He is still bitter about the way the Judge ruled in the divorce. She gave me full legal and physical custody and reduced his visitation to five hours one Sunday a month. He can have it increased if he takes 3 months of parenting classes. I have called him on the off chance that he would have an idea and he told me this was my problem, I wanted the boys, I got them and now I can deal with it.

SpawnOfAzazel -- I have taken things away, but it really doesn't work. They do so much that's good, both have an A/B average, both are in Boy Scouts, they do their chores, they help out. How can I keep taking things away if they both do things to earn it back. Mostly I don't really see them fighting, I just see the outcome and they cop to it if I ask.

sGt HarDKorE -- They are in Boy Scouts with each other and they go to camp and church together. I was beginning to think being together is the problem for them. I just don't know anymore.

So I'm getting the picture that its normal for them to fight each other and maybe they will grow out of it? They are just 9 and 10. I knew they would fight when they are teens but this seems so young to be starting.

Thanks.

[sGt HarDKorE]

Do they fight in boy scouts though? Maybe they just need their space. What my mom does is she always tries to have my brother and I on the same level and it is really annoying. Like if I want to play a sport, my bro has to too. If this is the problem in your family then I bet they feel like they are not their own person. Another example is having us do th same classes and such. I am so sick of my brother that I hate seeing him. Maybe that is how they are...

[cjonline]

Sometimes they argue at boy scouts but not fight, they never fight at camp or church or school. They are in different groups in camp, different grades in school. They really only fight when they are alone together. If I'm in the room or an adult is there they don't do anything more than argue in whispers. Its like the second they are alone they forget how to behave and start throwing punches. Its not possible to have them supervised all day so they don't go around each other. I just don't want something to happen and one of them to get hurt.

[NowWhat]

I do think this is normal behavior for them. Siblings fight. Like I said, my sister and I fought a lot. She and my older brother couldn't stand each other until they reached adulthood. They are just different people - totally.
My younger brother and I (17 months apart in age) would fight. It's just part of it.
Now, if someone messed with any of us - the others would jump in and come to our rescue.
My husband is the oldest of 4 and he went through this with his brothers. He even broke his arm in one of the fights. His brother had a broom stick broke on his back in another.
They love each other dearly now.

You said that your oldest is in counseling. Have you talked to the counselor about all of this? Let him/her know that this is going on? I would do that - if nothing else to put your mind at ease.

[tawnynkids]

I agree with NowWhat's idea of telling the counselor. Maybe having the other join in on a few sessions would help in getting out any possible problems the boys are dealing with and provide some helpful suggestions on how to positively resolve it.

I also would suggest checking your local community or with the counselor for some possible children's anger management program. It could teach them worlds about how to deal with their anger and positive ways in which to handle it, not just now but in their future as well.

All siblings do fight, and some come to blows, but they do need to learn some more positive ways in which to handle their problems with each other. They need to learn it is OK to disagee, it is OK to "fight" but it is not OK to hurt one another (or anyone else) when they do. I would say for most the fighting does break with the sibling and adulthood, but for some they carry it forward into every relationship.

I have 6 children (ages 18 yrs - 2 yrs) and they have fought. But I have always made it very important for them to know the importance and value they should each hold for the others. I have to say I think mine are just a bit closer than most. I could never stress enough to them how much they should love each other, that the relationship with each other will be ones that they continue with for the rest of their lives and likely even long after I am gone. Maybe when they fight (after you've learned about it) they can sit down and do something as simple as write a paragraph stating the good qualities they find in the other, why they like the other, why they value/appreciate the other. I did this with mine anyway. (And funny note- I had to inform my daughter that writing "I like and appreciate that there aren't two of you" didn't qualify but it was cute) I figured they were going to fight but I wanted them to keep in their minds the positive things about that person they were fighting with. That maybe if I reminded them by having them write this every time they fought, that maybe they would learn to remember how much they do love each other and that they should treat that person with respect. And that the other person know that the one they are fighting with does still actually like them and why.

Anyway, hope you can find something helpful in any of this. Blessings.

[natetheskate]

Why is your oldest in counseling, this causes a rift. Unless there is an emergancy remove him from counseling . Next stop with the Mommy time. Mommy needs her own time. You will see plenty of your boys. Next causally, very causally let your boys see you being in contact with their father. Do not discuss this with them, serenely pass threw the room while your on the phone.
Let them fight, as long as the nosy neighbors don't catch you it will be the best thing for THEM. They know that it gets under your skin, buck up, ignore them, other wise they are getting the best of YOU. If worse comes to worse and they seriously hurt one another take them to the emergancy room, it would probably be cheaper than the shrink.

[Gizzmo]

I find this a very interesting subject. I can not awnser this with 100% assurance because I am not your boys, nor do I know them, but what I can do is give you my opinion of what is happening. For one, they are siblings. ALL siblings fight, its natural for them and will slowly decrease as they age. Now, I assume they watch a lot of television, as do the majority of today's children. I believe they are intrigued by how television makes fighting look "cool" and "fun". Television has a lot of influence on how children behave, they absorb it and their actions are a lot of the times similar to what they watch. Try restricting what their allowed to watch and also try restricting how much television they should watch a day. These are just my suggestions and opinions and I really hope they help. Best of wishes to you and your family.



-- James Kline//Gizzmo

[cjonline]

I wanted to give an update of sorts. I took the ideas that everyone, mostly everyone, said and tried them. My oldest is still in counseling, he has OCD, its mostly controlled with the sessions so taking him out is not an option right now. I did however speak with his councilor and he is trying to work with my son about it. He feels it is not best for him to do the joint sessions.

Their TV has always been limited; they only get 30 minutes during the school week and video games have to be earned. As I said before it seems really hard for me to punish them when they do so many things good and I never “catch them in the act”. Maybe I'm too easy on them. I'm not sure.

I can't stop the “mommy time” I love it and they seem to enjoy it also. I have been doing it since they were babies. I get plenty of time to myself and time with my friends. It's not about “letting go” of them or my fear of not seeing them it's about getting time with each of my sons without the other there. They are such different people when they are not together its amazing its like I can really see them. I love my family and the three of us are very close despite the fighting.

I did start to have them write each other an “I'm sorry letter” that has sentences about what you like about your brother. The only up side to this is that they are both getting A's now in their writing classes in school. The major problem is that I don't catch them, sometimes it's only when one of them wants an aspirin because something is hurting that I know anything happened at all. I will never know how may fights I "missed" because they wait until I'm not around to get it all out.

My oldest did tell me he doesn't want to hurt my feelings so he will try harder to not hit his brother.

It has calmed down some, maybe because school is in full swing and they are really to busy and don't see each other alone much. I'm hoping that they grow out of it though I'm told by tons of people that this fighting is normal and once they get in their twenties I will breathe again. I only hope that I don't have to wait that long, but I fear I will.

Thanks for all the tips and assurances. They are appreciated.