[Seek and You Shall Find]

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Nosnosna
Asinine on its face.

For this to be even considered, we'll have to add in a few things:

Father accepts 100% responsibility for the child, financial and otherwise, from birth on.
Father immediately pays all medical costs in the pregnancy and delivery, up front. Father immediately disclaims any right to public assistance for the life of the child. Violate any of this, and he loses all rights to the child permanently, but is required to pay child support. Should anything happen to the mother during or as a result of the pregnancy, the father is 100% liable for it, criminally and financially. This means that if the mother dies in childbirth, we have first degree murder.

Amazingly, all of this is still more reasonable than the original suggestion.[/QUOTE]

Ok. That's fair :).

XenoSapien

So what happens when the baby is born and DNA proves you aren't the father? You just say oops sorry for making you have a child you don't want and sorry to the child for forcing it to be born and live the next "torturous 50 years" to parents who don't want it?

[XenoSapien]

You're really after shooting me down, aren't you? I respect that. Kudos.

Then a life has been saved from a mother who wanted to MURDER it. I have done a great thing. Besides, this will stop women who like to mess with a man, and tell them that they are pregnant by him; or women that will tell them that they will abort, and send them the aborted fetus as evidence.

"Forcing" a child to be born? You're new. I'll give you a pass on that.

XenoSapien

[Seek and You Shall Find]

No, not really after shooting you down. You asked for others opinions on the amendments you would like to see become law. So you would need to be willing to accept the pro's and con's of your suggestion. I personally believe abortion is wrong. But the fact is you can't go around dictating what someone else can do with a baby that may not be yours. In theory if there weren't holes in your proposal I like the idea of both mother and father having the right to keep that baby alive and raise it. But these are the arguments that you would come up against that will keep it from ever becoming law.

[GV70]

So what happens when the baby is born and DNA proves you aren't the father? You just say oops sorry for making you have a child you don't want and sorry to the child for forcing it to be born and live the next "torturous 50 years" to parents who don't want it?

I am amazing-what kind of mother should be... if she does not have any ideas who the father is :D :D :eek: :eek:

[Seek and You Shall Find]

I am amazing-what kind of mother should be...if she does not have any ideas who the father is :D :D :eek: :eek:

The same kind of father who doesn't know if he has fathered children by this woman or that because he is also sleeping around. And the same kind of a father who sleeps with this kind of a woman.

[XenoSapien]

Point well taken. You are correct, I do need the criticism to push these amendments, so by all means keep it coming. But like I said, "besides, this will stop women who like to mess with a man, and tell them that they are pregnant by him; or women that will tell them that they will abort, and send them the aborted fetus as evidence."

XenoSapien

[GV70]

The same kind of father who doesn't know if he has fathered children by this woman or that because he is also sleeping around. And the same kind of a father who sleeps with this kind of a woman.

Sounds stupidly... The man CANNOT control women fertilization;)

[tawnynkids]

Sounds stupidly...The man CANNOT control women fertilization;)

What?

[froggy7]

Sounds stupidly...The man CANNOT control women fertilization;)

A woman who is sleeping around with multiple men and gets pregnant will not know which man is the father until the child is born and DNA tests are done. Similarly, a man who is sleeping around with multiple women doesn't know how many kids he has until all the DNA tests are done.

[GV70]

A woman who is sleeping around with multiple men and gets pregnant will not know which man is the father until the child is born and DNA tests are done. Similarly, a man who is sleeping around with multiple women doesn't know how many kids he has until all the DNA tests are done.

Prenatal DNA Testing-$445 ONLY!:D :D :D

Prenatal Paternity Tests from Certified DNA Paternity Testing Laboratory and Prenatal Paternity Test Information

[J_9]

Prenatal DNA Testing-$445 ONLY!:D :D :D

Prenatal Paternity Tests from Certified DNA Paternity Testing Laboratory and Prenatal Paternity Test Information

You have got to be kidding. The only prenatal testing I know of thus far is amniocentesis or CVS and they are totally risky as they have a high risk of miscarriage. I don't know of any doctor who I work or have worked with that will be willing to do this.

[tawnynkids]

Spread the love, spread the love... blah, blah, blah. :) Dead on again J-9! Amnio can result in causing things like club foot to miscarriage. Uh noooo not just $445 because then you have to pay for the doctor appointment to do the amnio and the procedure itself. Which will not be covered by insurance because it will be considered an elective procedure. The $445 is also only for personal DNA, it's $595 for legal. And the mom's OB must consent to taking the sample.

[GV70]

The main problem is not the prenatal testing... The main problem is that nowadays there is
growing number of women which moral values decrease . I love reading explanations as "I had sex with John once,Peter and I had sex three times,I had sex with Joseph two times,I had sex with Bill four times, I had also sex with an unknown man once ...I am not sure but I could have been ovulating more likely by Bill but I am not sure...By the way I will name Steven as the father because his income is bigger than others and I will be able to get much child support."

It is related to Seek and You Shall Find's post,"So what happens when the baby is born and DNA proves you aren't the father? You just say oops sorry for making you have a child you don't want and sorry to the child for forcing it to be born and live the next "torturous 50 years" to parents who don't want it?"

[tawnynkids]

Just one more thought here... don't you think all the organizations that have spent years and years trying to make abortions illegal have already presented this reasoning to the courts and been denied? Until the law on abortion itself changes this unfortunately is probably going to be the way it is.

[tawnynkids]

And the morals of those men who slept with that woman? Because I am willing to bet a lot of money that none of them could say "I thought we were in a committed relationship, before we had sex we talked about it and decided that if it somehow resulted in a pregnancy we would both be okay with that." Come on, men are not less blameless. If you don't want any chance of a pregnant woman don't have sex with her! She can't get pregnant on her own.

My point in this is only that you can not make blanket statements about these situations. Not every woman who is unsure of the paternity is some evil whore and not every man is a victim. But it is never acceptable for a woman to use her pregnancy or the threat to terminate it against a man. I agree with that totally.

[GV70]

Blanket statements-:eek: :eek: :eek:
Paternity fraud rampant in U.S.30% of those named as fathers bilked of child support unjustly

Source: WorldNetDaily: Paternity fraud rampant in U.S.

[tawnynkids]

You said it is the main problem so, yes, I say blanket statement. (But it isn't just women's morals who have decreased) Hypothetically, there is a married couple who have been in a very rocky relationship but still having sex, one day the husband tells the wife he has decided he is done with her and is getting a divorce, the devastated wife seeks comfort from a long standing male friend and in a moment of weakness and desperation ends up in bed with him. Some time later she comes to find out she is pregnant and realizes she is unsure of which one may be the father. Is she a moral less whore? I wouldn't consider her that. Stupid maybe but not moral less. Someone who doesn't sleep around , values marriage and monogamy but someone who in a moment of utter pain sought to ease that pain in another's arms. Not brilliant but it happens.

My point is just that not every woman who is unsure of the paternity sleeps with this one, and that one oh and a couple more just for good measure. And not every woman who is unsure of paternity is someone whose morals have decreased. She can be someone who has just made a huge mistake that is very out of character for her.

And paternity fraud for the purposes of bilking someone of child support wasn't the issue. Or whether her morals that got her pregnant in the first place are at issue. We are talking about proposing a law where a putative father will have a right to keep a woman from having an abortion. My point was that in th eyes of the law he is a putative father because unless it is proven by way of DNA he is only that, a possible not proven legal father. In order to have a right to the unborn child he would need to first establish his legal right to that child by proving his paternity. So, my question is valid. My argument is not that she is someone who sleeps around and doesn't know who the father is. My argument is that if the state were to allow this to become law they would then have to ask what happens if... by some chance the putative father we gave rights to turns out to not be the father? As long as abortion is legal the state will realize they have just made abortion illegal without changing the original law and have made it possible for any man to claim to be the putative father in order to stop a woman from having an abortion that she would otherwise have a legal right to have.
What would compel the state to justify enacting a law in which would provide for a man to take away the right of a woman to have an abortion where there is no legal proof he is the father thereby giving him equal rights to the unborn child?
I think you just have to be prepared to argue all the possible rebuttals.

[s_cianci]

Once again Xeno, I'm inclined to agree with you. But I bet I get chewed up and spit out for this one! Family law adheres to some of the most blatant double standards in our legal system.

[froggy7]

What I find distressing is that Xeno feels that his wife is being highly unfair to him, and his response is to try and change things so that other kids in the future will be even worse off than they are under the current system. It doesn't really sound like he cares about his kid and what her future is going to be like at all. Or at least not enough to fight to make it better.

I mean, I could see trying to make changes that would make fathers getting custody easier, but these amendments really do seem oriented to getting fathers off the hook, and nothing else.

[XenoSapien]

What I find distressing is that Xeno feels that his wife is being highly unfair to him, and his response is to try and change things so that other kids in the future will be even worse off than they are under the current system. It doesn't really sound like he cares about his kid and what her future is going to be like at all. Or at least not enough to fight to make it better.

I mean, I could see trying to make changes that would make fathers getting custody easier, but these amendments really do seem oriented to getting fathers off the hook, and nothing else.

Wrong point #1: I never married the psycho. Wrong point #2, I'm am fighting a front that is a concept called, 'the wounded healer', and out to help the future from not only making my mistake, but should they make it, they can have more rights. I made a mistake giving that woman (girl) five seconds of my time. I compounded the mistake because my other brain did all the thinking (best of my life EVER). Now, after a year relationship, I got the psycho pregnant and she gave birth to the only child I will ever have (I've since been neutered).

So now I am being punished for my mistake, as I have done all to work WITH the mother on this, but she has only delivered threats and lies. There is some other reading on my position that is apparent that you haven't seen. This is again why I said before that I probably shouldn't have placed these amendments here, because there is too much to explain. But my friend Froggy, you're close, but not yet there...

XenoSapien