Atheists do not believe,How?

firmbeliever · Jul 20, 2007, 01:22 PM

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!! :confused:

Thanks in advance.

rankrank55 · Jul 20, 2007, 01:27 PM

They just don't... they see things in a more logical sense or what's logical to them perhaps. Some people just don't feel the need to believe in god... once we die we die and that's that.

jillianleab · Jul 20, 2007, 03:14 PM

Here's the way I see it:

You either have the capacity for religious faith, or you don't. Either your brain says "Sure, this thing sounds good, let's go with that." or it says, "Are you nuts? No way!" Most atheists rely on PROOF of things, evidence, science, and so on. To believe in a god, you must suspend that desire for evidence and let yourself go, so to speak. To me, that's what the "capacity for faith" is.

This of course can bring up the argument of who is right, who's belief is better, blah blah blah. To me, it doesn't matter. Religion works for you? Great, go for it. Atheism works for you? Great, go for that.

Then there are also the people who "lose" their faith; perhaps a loved one dies, they lose their job and their dog gets run over all in one day. For some people, when too many bad things happen in a row, they lose their faith because they think god wouldn't do this if he exists.

For me, I was born without the capacity for religious faith. My brain just won't let me accept it - it seems to illogical and irrational. I also see the horrible things people do to themselves and others in the name of religion, and I want no part of that.

michealb · Jul 20, 2007, 06:49 PM

Why would you believe? There have been so many gods over the course of humanity that we can't even keep count. Why does anyone of them deserve your worship more than the other.

Religion was invented by man to control large amounts of people. Humans evolved to live in groups of up to 150. With the invention of agricultural humans were able to live in larger groups and the leaders had trouble keeping tribes under control. So they did what every great human leader does when losing control; he invents an enemy. He invents a reason to hate and with the absence of other reasons, you hate for ideals and religion is born.

nauticalstar420 · Jul 20, 2007, 07:02 PM

As for me (this is nauticalstar420's husband) I believe more in black and white, what I can see, and what can be proven. I do believe Jesus Christ walked the earth, but I believe after the years of the story being passed on generation to generation it was altered to what we have today.

If I have offended anybody, I do apologize. I just don't believe that a bibliological being created the entire universe and us as human beings with no proof or no hard physical evidence, but yet it can be proven by a scientific analysis and data of evolution.

Choux · Jul 22, 2007, 01:45 PM

Einstein thought it was possible that there is a god involved in creating the Universe.

All the embellishments about the nature of god(s), motives of god(s) and so on found in Bibles, holy scriptures and "revelations" are purely *human fantasizing*, and where humans are involved there are always open or hidden agendas. :)

Enlightnement and wisdom is the result of human minds.

Cordially,

Mary Sue

Starman · Aug 6, 2007, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

The way I see it, it demands the inconsistent application of the scientific method and violation of basic logic. For example, complex coded messages would be immediately attributed to intelligemt sources. But the coded instructions or messages in the DNA aren't.

Is DNA a Code?

BTW
Not seeking a debate merely giving my opinion as requested by poster.

Capuchin · Aug 8, 2007, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Choux

Einstein thought it was possible that there is a god involved in creating the Universe.

Every good scientist thinks this, no need to bring Einstein into it...

NeedKarma · Aug 8, 2007, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Starman

BTW
Not seeking a debate merely giving my opinion as requested by poster.

Y'know no one here debased the other side until your post.

"inconsistent application of the scientific method"
"violation of basic logic"

Indeed.

Bluerose · Aug 8, 2007, 05:57 AM

I read this somewhere and personally enjoy the idea. It might help or it might not. Still worth a read though.

Imagine This...

God is a potato! Sounds funny and even sacrilegious, but its true!

2000 years ago the Roman and Greek empires had as the supreme being in their religious pantheon, Zeus, today the Zeus and all the other Gods of this long gone religion are called 'myths' and in about 2000 years our view of God will most likely have died out and become a 'myth' also. Disney will make a movie about God (like Samson and Hercules).

The point is even if in the future we are worshiping a giant potato as the supreme being/divine creator (God) it will still be the same 'thing' - by any other name a rose will still smell as sweet. And by any other name 'God' will still be as powerful. It is still the same 'Thing' no matter what you call it, or how you envision 'it.

This thing this 'God' is within you. It is within all of us. Call it what you will, visualise it anyway you want. Call it 'He' call it 'She' call it 'It'. It makes no difference it is that same thing no matter what name you give it. Even if you say you don't believe in it, it doesn't matter - that won't make it go away. It is a part of you, a part of all of us, a part of the whole. I'm not a religious person, I don't think of 'It' as 'God' but I know it is there cause I can feel it working in me - I ask for what I want and 'It' delivers. It is also known by other labels - The Law Of Attraction, Universal Law, Universal Mind, God, Ghosts, Spirit etc. Labels! Just labels! Call it what you want. It's real!

NeedKarma · Aug 8, 2007, 06:00 AM

But Bluerose - atheists do not acknowledge the existence of a god or gods so the whatever you call it is irrelevant.

chelisimo · Aug 8, 2007, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

I think believing in god is easier than not believing. If one believes, the complexity of the universe becomes so much easier because the burden of thought is no longer there. One just say, god made it and you are done with it. I think we are so afraid of our smallness in the universe that we had to create this comfort zone to justify our weaknesses. Does this make any sense to you? I would like to know...

firmbeliever · Aug 8, 2007, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by chelisimo

I think believing in god is easier than not believing. If one believes, the complexity of the universe becomes so much easier because the burden of thought is no longer there. One just say, god made it and and you are done with it. I think we are so afraid of our smallness in the universe that we had to create this comfort zone to justify our weaknesses. Does this make any sense to you? I would like to know...

It makes sense to me that some people choose religion for the sake of having some kind of anchor in the whole universe of unknown things.

As for me I found my religion to be a balance of all things physical,spiritual and scientific.

One of the reasons I asked my first question was because I cannot imagine a life without a belief in a higher Power or a day of judgement where all people receive their due.

I also wondered about how atheists really deal with death being the end of all things and that there is nothing beyond death.
How do you reconcile with the fact that humans beings in this life are unjust and they die doing injustices without punishment, then if death is the end how does the victim (who is atheist for example) find peace knowing that the perpetrator died without having his/her due?

These are questions I think about and no one need to answer in order to start an argument, but if you could explain that will be wonderful,
Thanks all:)

alkalineangel · Aug 8, 2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

It makes sense to me that some people choose religion for the sake of having some kind of anchor in the whole universe of unknown things.

As for me I found my religion to be a balance of all things physical,spiritual and scientific.

One of the reasons I asked my first question was because I cannot imagine a life without a belief in a higher Power or a day of judgement where all people receive their due.

I also wondered about how atheists really deal with death being the end of all things and that there is nothing beyond death.
How do you reconcile with the fact that humans beings in this life are unjust and they die doing injustices without punishment, then if death is the end how does the victim (who is atheist for example) find peace knowing that the perpetrator died without having his/her due?

These are questions I think about and no one need to answer in order to start an arguement, but if you could explain that will be wonderful,
Thanks all:)

I understand what you are saying, and Im going to give my interpretation, although Im not atheist, my husband is, and I'm pretty sure I understand his logic...

You live to live... if you are bad, you die bad, your memory will live on through those who knew you as being bad that's it... no hell, no eternal punishment.

The idea of heaven is just a way for mortal people to cope with the concept of ending. The idea of hell is for mortal people to cope with the idea of dealing with bad people.

If you are dead by someone's hand, you need no revenge or closure, you are dead the living is what needs this... if you were good, you had a great life, people love you, and will miss you, but you are dead... if you were bad, people will dislike you and you will still be dead... do you see? He views religion as more a way to cope with hard things for the living...

If Im wrong here... someone correct me... that is just how he has explained to me...

jillianleab · Aug 8, 2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

It makes sense to me that some people choose religion for the sake of having some kind of anchor in the whole universe of unknown things.

As for me I found my religion to be a balance of all things physical,spiritual and scientific.

One of the reasons I asked my first question was because I cannot imagine a life without a belief in a higher Power or a day of judgement where all people receive their due.

Why can't death be the final "due"? Why can't the fact that if you were a horrible person in life, the memory of you being a horrible person lives on? No offence intended, but I think it's a little perverse to want someone to be punished for eternity (especially given some of the "sins" which are supposed to condem you to hell). They're dead, they can't hurt anyone anymore, so who cares? And it's bordering on self-importance to want to or think you will be rewarded for eternity for being a good person. What's wrong with being a good person while you are here and making a name for yourself that you can be proud of?

I also wondered about how atheists really deal with death being the end of all things and that there is nothing beyond death.
How do you reconcile with the fact that humans beings in this life are unjust and they die doing injustices without punishment, then if death is the end how does the victim (who is atheist for example) find peace knowing that the perpetrator died without having his/her due?

These are questions I think about and no one need to answer in order to start an argument, but if you could explain that will be wonderful,
Thanks all:)

Death can be the ultimate punishment to an atheist; once you die you can't make up for past wrongs, you can't do good deeds anymore - it's over. So we make the most of the time we are alive because when we die, that's it. No more, game over. I don't understand the need/desire for religious folks to want to continue into eternity, especially since if your eternal world is so much better than the mortal world you find ways to stay here. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, but if heaven is so great, why take life-saving measures to prolong your life on earth? I don't get it, and I suspect I never will. Anyway, if someone has committed injustices in this world and they die, then I think, "Well good! Now they can't hurt people anymore!" Death IS the due - if you die you CEASE TO BE, what's worse than that? Now I'll give you that there are some horrible people in this world who don't deserve the relief of death (I read a story about a child molester recently who assaulted a 4-month old, for example) and if they die "too soon" it comes to mind, "That's not fair", but at least that guy can't do harm anymore. He can never repent, make people forgive him, he can never have the simple joy of eating a really good steak (or whatever, lol). I don't need to think about how he's being punished for eternity because he's GONE for eternity, and that's good enough.

Hope that helps you understand a little better. Also, I commend you on taking a curiosity in atheism and trying to understand it rather than deciding we're all godless monsters. You are a far better man than several on this site...

firmbeliever · Aug 8, 2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by jillianleab

WYou are a far better man than several on this site...

And just for info I do not believe in good goes to heaven and bad goes to Hell for eternity, I believe in a just due for each whether he be good or bad.No one is all good and no one is all bad for that matter.

Thank you for your thoughts jillianleab,
BTW I am a woman!! :)

Bluerose · Aug 8, 2007, 03:38 PM

I posted.........

"I read this somewhere and personally enjoy the idea. It might help or it might not. Still worth a read though.

Imagine This....

God is a potato! Sounds funny and even sacrilegious, but its true!

2000 years ago the Roman and Greek empires had as the supreme being in their religious pantheon, Zeus, today the Zeus and all the other Gods of this long gone religion are called 'myths' and in about 2000 years our view of God will most likely have died out and become a 'myth' also. Disney will make a movie about God (like Samson and Hercules).

The point is even if in the future we are worshiping a giant potato as the supreme being/divine creator (God) it will still be the same 'thing' - by any other name a rose will still smell as sweet. And by any other name 'God' will still be as powerful. It is still the same 'Thing' no matter what you call it, or how you envision 'it.

This thing this 'God' is within you. It is within all of us. call it what you will, visualise it anyway you want. Call it 'He' call it 'She' call it 'It'. It makes no difference it is that same thing no matter what name you give it. Even if you say you don't believe in it, it doesn't matter - that won't make it go away. It is a part of you, a part of all of us, a part of the whole. I'm not a religious person, I don't think of 'It' as 'God' but I know it is there cause I can feel it working in me - I ask for what I want and 'It' delivers. It is also known by other labels - The Law Of Attraction, Universal Law, Universal Mind, God, Ghosts, Spirit etc. Labels! Just labels! Call it what you want. It's real!"

NeedKarma,

"But Bluerose - atheists do not acknowledge the existence of a god or gods so the whatever you call it is irrelevant."

Not necessarily so. The point is that there is more to us and the world we live in. We don't need to acknowledge it as 'God', it is there anyway, whatever you want to call it. Even atheists may be willing to accept 'It' if they didn't have to call it God. And if we need to pin it down and label it we can choose one from a hidden storehouse of knowledge that is within each of us.

I wonder what atheists would make of Deism - Deistic thinking has existed since ancient times and in many cultures. The word Deism is generally used to refer to the movement toward natural theology or freethinking.

Putting aside organised and commercial religion, Deists believe in a Real Religion, a natural religion.

I have only recently learned of Deism but it might be the answer many atheists are looking for. I could be wrong. I'm still in the process of checking it out for myself.

jillianleab · Aug 8, 2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Thank you for your thoughts jillianleab,
BTW I am a woman!!!:)

CRAP! Sorry! :eek:

chelisimo · Aug 8, 2007, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

I think that "alkalineangel" answered this one for me. I must tell you that I do not believe but I don't see anything wrong in those who do.

punkrock58 · Aug 14, 2007, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

Well I say that they fined no hope in life... the fact that somehow if there was a god why would he create such a ed up world and just let it be... or religion has pushed them way with the hyporacy that they have a lot of the time... me personally I yes beleave in a god that he dose hear me and chooses when to help if it benefits the world in the end... I beleave religion can only take you so far then you have to take your own jorney in life... some don't make it though this jorney though... anways I'm not going to ramble.lol