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    michealb's Avatar
    michealb Posts: 484, Reputation: 129
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    #21

    Aug 14, 2007, 08:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by punkrock58
    well i say that they fined no hope in life....the fact that somehow if there was a god why would he create such a ed up world and just let it be....or religion has pushed them way with the hyporacy that they have alot of the time...
    There might be a few atheists that choose to be so because of those reasons but certainly not any large percentage. Most don't believe in god in the same reason you don't think Santa Clause is real. Simply the evidence for god just isn't there. It's one of the reasons that as education increases so does the number of atheists in a society, many religions such as the Amish limit the amount of education that there members get so that they can better control them.
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #22

    Aug 14, 2007, 08:32 AM
    Interesting topic.

    Sadly enough my view is on the agnostic or atheist is that of their own life experience. I mean many people who do not believe are people that have had hard times and blame GOd for their misfortunes. I have had a hard life and nothing comes to me but goes to everyone else and it is not fair, well few people live a life these days consistent with what the bible teaches us. I truly believe that if followed strictly the Bible leads to happiness we never knew possible, including the parts about giving what you have away, the more you practise the more the existence of GOD becomes evident, the further you are away from "good" the further youmove away from GOD. I think the unbeleiver struggles with that, God does not move away from us, we (by our own decisions and actions) move away from him and then the blame game begins. Whew, got a little carried away:)
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #23

    Aug 14, 2007, 08:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by BMI
    I mean many people who do not beleive are people that have had hard times and blame GOd for their misfortunes.
    Actually I find that it quite the opposite. Most ardent believers seem have had some form of trauma and/or abuse in their lives and religion is their coping mechanism. People who have had a great childhood and a good education are more likely to be atheist/agnostic in my opinion.
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #24

    Aug 14, 2007, 08:48 AM
    That may require an explanation. I do believe we all question faith when we fall on bad times, that's normal. HOWEVER, personal events go a LONG way in determining how you view God. I doubt the truly happy believe in nothing, I just can't accept that.
    jillianleab's Avatar
    jillianleab Posts: 1,194, Reputation: 279
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    #25

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by BMI
    That may require an explaination. I do beleive we all question faith when we fall on bad times, thats normal. HOWEVER, personal events go a LONG way in determining how you view God. I doubt the truly happy beleive in nothing, i just can't accept that.
    Sorry bud, got to disagree with you here. I'm truly happy, my husband is truly happy and we don't believe. Same with a lot of my friends. I can honestly say that aside from superficial things (bigger house, nicer car), I wouldn't change a single thing about my life. I'm proud of what I've done, I'm proud of what I'm doing, I have a family who loves me, I have a really, really great life. I've doubted the existence of god since I was a kid; I remember being really young and thinking, "this just doesn't make sense to me". It took a few years to realize that had a name, but I never subscribed to the religious line of thinking. It had nothing to do with tragedy in my life, not at all. It just never added up, even in my 5-year-old brain.

    You seem to think atheists are people who hate god; maybe some do, but most don't. It's hard to hate something you don't believe in... I mean, do you hate the Tooth Fairy?
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #26

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:09 AM
    I cannot prove whether you are at a level of happiness in relation to the level one would feel by just knowing there is a GOD and so there's where our debate can go no further. I DO not think atheists hate God, I guess it seems likea crazy idea to them, that's all. My point was that when you do believe the more reasonable the existence of a God becomes, to the point where you cannot imagine anyone NOT believing, that's all.

    As for you last question, yes I do hate the tooth fairy, the stiffed me on my wisdom tooth:)
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #27

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:10 AM
    That's the vexing part, we can understand the other side (believers) but you refuse to understand anyone who is not like you. Why is that?

    BTW my family is truly happy, so are millions of others who are not like you.
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #28

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:14 AM
    LIKE ME??

    What a beleiver, actually there are more "of us" than there are "of you".

    Who's to say I do not UNDERSTAND YOU! If your argument is that logically there is no God than that's one thing, I can logically conclude there is. I have no issue with you not believing, not sure where you got that from.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #29

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:17 AM
    Hello:

    Well, I'm an atheist and I'm not happy at all. I guess that proves it.

    But, I don't think I'd be happier if I started pretending about things, though. Do you know how silly I would feel if I started pretending? No, you don't, do you?

    excon
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #30

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:20 AM
    You say:
    Quote Originally Posted by BMI
    I have no issue with you not beleiving, not sure where you got that from.
    But earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by BMI
    I doubt the truly happy beleive in nothing, i just can't accept that.
    What's up with that?
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #31

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:25 AM
    YES, how is that taking issue with the fact you don't believe. My belief is that the truly happy are those that believe in God, are you taking offence at the fact that I am saying your not happy, cause that's not what I mean. I believe spiritually that you reach a happiness through faith which can only be achieved through God. O.k so you are happy great, am I happier than you, I have no clue, were the saints happy, yes they were. This is a spiritual debate, one that cannot determine whether you are happier than say I am or not, it surely goes a little deeper than the previous persons comment about "that proves it". Please see that, and ironically it seems you have a bigger issue understanding my belief than I have understanding yours.
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #32

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:28 AM
    ALSO, to excon:

    Saying that would you be happier if you started "pretending" in things is to suggest that those that believe are pretending, which is very insulting to the many that do believe in something. I do not cast insults at you belief system and ask the same out of you.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #33

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:32 AM
    The issue is that you profess only you can only be truly happy if you believe in God. That of course is incorrect. There are a lot in very unhappy believers in God, what the hell happened to them?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #34

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:33 AM
    Hello again, BMI:

    Boy, I sure didn't intend to insult anybody. I know that if you did what I was talking about, you'd call it praying. I know you'd believe it too, and I'm happy for you.

    But, from MY vantage point, were I to do it, I couldn't call it anything else BUT pretending. If that offends you, so be it.

    excon
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #35

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:38 AM
    Fair enough my man, I guess we can cool it on that point, If Karma thinks that you can be truly happy without God, than that of course is incorrect, and if offends than so be it.

    LAST POINT: How ironic is it that your user name would have the word karma in it?
    shatteredsoul's Avatar
    shatteredsoul Posts: 423, Reputation: 130
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    #36

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:38 AM
    Why does everything need to be in black or white? Why does religion have to be included in order to understand a greater existence? Why can an atheist not be spiritual and be connected to the energy in the universe that brings enlightenment and awareness?
    I am spiritual, I grew up religious and my sister is an atheist, and so is my best friend. I think that it partly has to do with a fear of the unknown and the mystery of life cannot be solved. So, the answer is to say, there isn't anything after this life. How do they know? How can they be so sure? Just as someone who is religious can't be sure, they go on their faith. So an atheist has "faith" that there is nothing after this life, no continuation into the next existence. (Not including a "heaven")

    Ever read a Conversation with God? It is an interesting book, not religious and it puts things into perspective when deciding is God within us and are we really God. Yes, it puts the responsibility on us, to live a life that is loving and compassionate. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

    Keep an open mind to what you don't know and don't understand.
    Synnen's Avatar
    Synnen Posts: 7,927, Reputation: 2443
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    #37

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:46 AM
    I don't really have a point here. I'm not an atheist, but I can understand how they reached their conclusions, and I'm cool with that.

    I do want to point out, though, that the only religion that is truly bothered by the idea of atheism is Christianity. At least, the only people I've ever been around that seemed bothered by it in the least were Christians.

    I find that interesting.
    jillianleab's Avatar
    jillianleab Posts: 1,194, Reputation: 279
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    #38

    Aug 14, 2007, 09:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
    Why can an atheist not be spiritual and be connected to the energy in the universe that brings enlightenment and awareness?
    For the same reason we don't call a boat a fire truck. Because the definitions don't match up. Change "atheist" to "agnostic" and you're on to something.
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    shatteredsoul Posts: 423, Reputation: 130
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    #39

    Aug 14, 2007, 10:00 AM
    UMM no, what does being spiritual have anything to do with religion? It only does if you yourself are religious.
    Yes Synn, you are right. I have nothing against anyone who believes whatever they believe. I just think faith in nothing, is still faith, right?

    Religion puts people into categories and makes rules to make people feel safe and to know how to live their life.

    Spirituality has to do with being connected to the universe and its energy, yes the Universe has its own natural laws, but they are not religious by any means.

    Call it what you want, but the definition of religion and spirituality are NOT the same, so they wouldn't match up.
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #40

    Aug 14, 2007, 10:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Synnen
    I don't really have a point here. I'm not an atheist, but I can understand how they reached their conclusions, and I'm cool with that.

    I do want to point out, though, that the only religion that is truly bothered by the idea of atheism is Christianity. At least, the only people I've ever been around that seemed bothered by it in the least were Christians.

    I find that interesting.
    I am a muslim I am not personally against atheism (each one is responsible for his own choices),but I do believe in the fact that denial of the Creator will have its consequences on the person (whether in this world or the next).

    A muslims main belief being the belief and submission to One and Only God,without associating partners.

    This is not a point for argument,just stating my belief.

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