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    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jul 6, 2005, 03:49 PM
    What in the heck do I have here?
    Hey, I just stumbled across this forum and I think I have reached nirvana!

    I am finishing my basement and have reached the point of finishing my bathroom. It was "stubbed" by the builder, but I just don't know what each pipe is for. I have posted a pic here: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...a/bathroom.jpg

    There is a 4" pipe in the floor, a 2" pipe in the middle in front of window, and a 2" pipe located close to the 3" pipe, but very near wall.

    I obviously know what the 4" pipe is for, but am confussed on the 2" pipes. Could the one by\in the wall be a vent, or perhaps one is for a shower\tub and the other by\in the wall is for a sink?

    Any guesses or help would greatly be appreciated!
    karma's Avatar
    karma Posts: 33, Reputation: 3
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    #2

    Jul 7, 2005, 02:56 AM
    Hope this helps
    My boyfriend has been a plumber for 20 yrs and he believes that the 3'' in the pic must be for the toilet with the 2'' behind it being the toilet's vent. The 2'' under the window would be for a vanity. As far as he can tell from your description, there is only plumbing for a half bathroom. But he needs to see more pics to be sure.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #3

    Jul 7, 2005, 06:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    Hey, I just stumbled across this forum and I think I have reached nirvana!

    I am finishing my basement and have reached the point of finishing my bathroom. It was "stubbed" by the builder, but I just don't know what each pipe is for. I have posted a pic here: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...a/bathroom.jpg

    There is a 4" pipe in the floor, a 2" pipe in the middle in front of window, and a 2" pipe located close to the 3" pipe, but very near wall.

    I obviously know what the 4" pipe is for, but am confussed on the 2" pipes. Could the one by\in the wall be a vent, or perhaps one is for a shower\tub and the other by\in the wall is for a sink?

    Any guesses or help would greatly be appreciated!

    The 4" is a toilet stubup. The 2" upright pipe behind it is the pipe you will come off 18" from the floor to the center of a 2" DWV drainage tee turned to the right with a laterial, (horizontal) 2" pipe extending up to 5' inside the wall to elbo out and pick up a lavatory or vanity. The top of the drainage tee continues on out through roof, or revents into another vent in the attic, as the vent for the entire bathroom group.
    The stubup out of the floor is a rough for one of two things. If it's about 15 1/2" off the nearest wall and 60" from the far wall then it's a bathtub rough in.
    This rough could also be framed out for a walk in tile shower.
    What you have here, my friend, is a basement rough in for a full bath.
    Good luck, Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Jul 7, 2005, 06:54 AM
    Thanks for the reply! :D

    My next question would be concerning the vent pipe in the wall you mentioned.

    I asked a plumber about ways to not have to run the vent all the way up through the roof. He said I had two options. First, he said I could put some kind of mechanical vent under the sink like I have in my kitchen, or second, I could vent it out through the exterior wall.

    Venting through the exterior wall would require brick work as it's the front of the house :( , so I would REALLY like to know if option one is A) feesable and B) what kind of vent I should be looking for at HD.

    Thanks again for any help!
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #5

    Jul 7, 2005, 07:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    Thanks for the reply! :D

    My next question would be concerning the vent pipe in the wall you mentioned.

    I asked a plumber about ways to not have to run the vent all the way up through the roof. He said I had two options. First, he said I could put some kind of mechanical vent under the sink like I have in my kitchen, or second, I could vent it out through the exterior wall.

    Venting through the exterior wall would require brick work as it's the front of the house :( , so I would REALLY like to know if option one is A) feesable and B) what kind of vent I should be looking for at HD.

    Thanks again for any help!
    No problem,
    Your plumber was bang on. The spring loaded mechanical vent that you refer to is a Studor Mechanical Vent that's manufactured a little north of where I live. This vent will be placed on top of the drainage tee and will be all you need to vent your bathroom group.. Check them out at, http://www.studor.com/homeowners.htm
    Glad I could help. Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jul 7, 2005, 10:45 AM
    Thanks again for the reply. Can I just leave the vent on the top of the T in the wall (behind dry wall), or does it need to be somewhere else?

    Thanks,
    Dan
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #7

    Jul 7, 2005, 12:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    Thanks again for the reply. Can I just leave the vent on the top of the T in the wall (behind dry wall), or does it need to be somewhere else?

    thx,
    Dan
    On top of the tee is fine, or if you wish you may elbo off the vertical pipe and install the Studor on the lavatory stubout under the cabinet. That way if you ever had to replace it will be handy to do so. Regards. Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jul 7, 2005, 04:49 PM
    Tom, thanks once again!

    One final question. (Yeah right! :p )

    We want to install a clawfoot tub centered in front of the window. However, the floor stub for the tub isn't located in any place that would allow this placement.

    My idea was to make a raised floor section to place the tub upon to allow pipes to run under the tub unobstructed. (6" raised)

    Do you see any problem placing a 90 on the top of the tub stub and a horizontal section to "move" the tub stub? (Would use a second 90 at the end of the vertical to connect to the tub drain(s) pipe.) Of course, the horizontal section would need to have a slight downhill angle.

    Again, thanks for you input... it really is helping a ton, and will save me quite a bit of money. :D

    Dan
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #9

    Jul 7, 2005, 07:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    Tom, thanks once again!

    One final question. (Yeah right! :p )

    We want to install a clawfoot tub centered infront of the window. However, the floor stub for the tub isn't located in any place that would allow this placement.

    My idea was to make a raised floor section to place the tub upon to allow pipes to run under the tub unobstructed. (6" raised)

    Do you see any problem placing a 90 on the top of the tub stub and a horizontal section to "move" the tub stub? (Would use a second 90 at the end of the vertical to connect to the tub drain(s) pipe.) Of course, the horizontal section would need to have a slight downhill angle.

    Again, thanks for you input...it really is helping a ton, and will save me quite a bit of money. :D

    Dan
    Hi Dan, Glad we could help.
    You're proposing a "dog-leg" and that's the kiss of death to drainage. Especially lavatorys and tubs that send a lot of hair down the drain. If I had my druyhers I'd bust the concrete, ( Your builder should have left a tub dap out if he knew you planned on using the rough) and move the trap. How ever you asked for a reply. Since it's a clawfoot you can get under it. In place of the top sweep (You are using long radius elbos, aren't you?) I would install a drainage tee and put a 2" clean out in the end . You'll thank me for it later. Cheers, Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jul 8, 2005, 04:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1
    You're proposing a "dog-leg" and that's the kiss of death to drainage.

    So, while "dog-legs" aren't illegal, they are frowned upon... correct? Therefore, if I use a clean out and large radius bends things will be legal... however, I should be ready to use the clean-out due to the increase in the chances of clogging. :(

    Just curious how a dog-leg here is bad, but is "ok" up to 5' for the sink? I would have thought that to be a bad idea as well given the hair clog issues. Should I use large radius bends for the sink as well just to be safe?

    Thanks yet again!
    Dan
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #11

    Jul 9, 2005, 05:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    So, while "dog-legs" aren't illegal, they are frowned upon...correct? Therefore, if I use a clean out and large radius bends things will be legal....however, I should be ready to use the clean-out due to the increase in the chances of clogging. :(

    Just curious how a dog-leg here is bad, but is "ok" up to 5' for the sink? I would have thought that to be a bad idea as well given the hair clog issues. Should I use large radius bends for the sink as well just to be safe?

    Thanks yet again!
    Dan

    Good morning Dan,

    A elbo will slow down the flow from the trap to the destination. A dog leg is two elbos close together. Do the math. Any time the flow is slowed or impeded it tends to drop solids that will build up over time into a clog. The main cause of clogs from lavatories, showers and tub are hair matted together by grease from the soap. Installing drain lines with lots of elbos just isn't good plumbing practice.
    Where did you come up with the idea that "doglegs" are OK for sinks?
    A sink discharges first into a trap. Then through a stubout into a drainage elbo and a horizontal lateral line,( which if 2" can be up to 5' in length) into a sanitary tee and the stack. The same for lavatories if you're confusing sinks with lavatories. No double elbo, (dogleg) there. Rule of thumb for all drainage.
    Keep it as straight as you can and if you have to make a turn, (elbo) just remember that the more radius a elbo has the less friction the flow has to overcome.
    Cheers, Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jul 9, 2005, 08:35 AM
    As always, thanks again Tom!

    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1

    ...Where did you come up with the idea that "doglegs" are OK for sinks?

    ...and a horizontal lateral line,( which if 2" can be up to 5' in length) into a sanitary tee ...
    I guess in my mind, the lateral section will look exactly like the tub dog leg since, on both setups, there would be drainage elbows on both sides of a long lateral section. (At lease for my aplication) (Going to go with elbows and the Studor vent under the sink as you proposed several questions back.)

    HOpefully I am making sense here... and things look OK. :confused:

    Thanks again,
    Dan
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jul 12, 2005, 07:25 AM
    I think I understand a little more what you were talking about now.

    A "Dog leg" is two elbows connected together or very closely. The 5' lateral pipe in the wall for the sink is NOT a dogleg because the elbows are separated by such a large distance.

    So, as long as I separate the elbow and clean-out under the tub... things should be OK. Any rule of thumb for that distance?

    BTW, I found a long-raduis clean out which I will be using. :)

    Also, the pipe in the wall behind the toilet IS a 2" and the pipe under the window for the tub is a 1 1/2".


    So, that all said... I am going to put my plumbers hat on for the first time tonight... so wish me luck! :o
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #14

    Jul 12, 2005, 10:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dstima
    I think I understand a little more what you were talking about now.

    A "Dog leg" is two elbows connected together or very closely. The 5' lateral pipe in the wall for the sink is NOT a dogleg because the elbows are seperated by such a large distance.

    So, as long as I seperate the elbow and clean-out under the tub...things should be ok. Any rule of thumb for that distance?

    BTW, I found a long-raduis clean out which I will be using. :)

    Also, the pipe in the wall behind the toilet IS a 2" and the pipe under the window for the tub is a 1 1/2".

    "A "Dog leg" is two elbows connected together or very closely. The 5' lateral pipe in the wall for the sink is NOT a dogleg because the elbows are seperated by such a large distance."

    So, that all said...I am going to put my plumbers hat on for the first time tonight...so wish me luck! :o

    Not quite correct. A dog leg,(offset) is two elboes turned opposite from each other that will slow down and impede the flow.
    A sink drain only has one elbo behind the stubout, then it travels down a pipe of any length and goes into a vertical drainage tee. Not the same at all.
    PS. Don't forget the cleanout. Tom
    Dstima's Avatar
    Dstima Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jul 12, 2005, 12:28 PM
    Thanks for the reply!

    I actually did understand the "dog-leg"... as I had in my head the two elbows turned opposite directions. ;)

    As far the sink... in my application I actually WILL be using two long radius elbows instead of one elbow and one drainage "t". I am, however, using a drainage 't' (to connect the Studor vent under the sink) after the sink trap but before the first long radius elbow.

    So, for the sink and system vent, the diagram would go... sink drain to trap to drainage 't' to a)Studor vent and to b)long radius elbow to horizontal section to long radius elbow to existing vertical pipe cut at 18". (all using 2" PVC)

    Concerning the clean-out reminder:

    I don't think I was clear in describing that I had found a clean-out that ALSO has a long-radius elbow (so looks like a "t", but one opening is threaded and the other two openings form the long-radius bend).

    So, for the shower, the diagram would go... shower drain to long-radius cleanout to horizontal section to long-radius elbow to existing vertical pipe cut nearly flush to floor. (all using 1 1/2" PVC)


    This all makes sense, right? Everything looks copacetic, right? :o

    Thx again,
    Dan

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