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    tiggerella's Avatar
    tiggerella Posts: 184, Reputation: 13
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    #1

    Jun 9, 2005, 06:30 PM
    Was it suicide or murder?
    Since the psychics who've responded to my questions on this forum have been so very helpful, I'd like to ask you to help me out one last time on something much more important than anything I've asked to date: Did my sister-in-law really commit suicide as the coroner's office has reported to us, or was this a botched murder investigation?

    Here are the facts as we know them:

    My sister-in-law, who was one year younger than I and three years younger than her brother (my husband), was living in Texas in 2001 and was in a relationship with a man who had several police reports filed against him for domestic abuse - some by my sis-in-law and some by his first wife. Although both my husband and I had begged her to leave the state, she had been told (by the ex-husband, whom she was seemingly having a "friendly" visit with on the day of her death) that he had "connections" who would be able to hunt her down and hurt her if she tried to run, so she remained within his reach until we got the call that she had died of a single gunshot wound to the head.

    When my husband went to the morgue in Texas to claim the body, he was shown a photograph showing the exit wound as being below and behind her left ear, almost at the edge of her skull, with the entrance wound at her right temple. The problem is that the coroner's report, which we received well after her funeral here in Maine, states that the exit wound was ABOVE the left ear. (We've never managed to get a copy of the photgraphs my husband was shown in the morgue to prove whether the written report was incorrect.)

    In going to the abusive ex-husband's home when he went to Texas to claim the body and dispose of his sister's worldly possessions that we couldn't afford to send home, my husband was told he couldn't be offered a seat in the living room because the ex had disposed of the couch "because that's where she died", yet the police report states she was on the floor of the home when the officers and EMT's arrived and that several attempts to revive her were made before she was pronounced dead. (Her hands were tested for gun powder residue, but despite the reports of having been shot at previously by the ex-husband's son in the very house where she died, the ex-husband's hands were never tested for gun powder - nor were his son's, who the ex claimed wasn't present at the time my sis-in-law "shot herself".)

    While speaking with us on the phone before my husband went to Texas, in conversations while my hubby was in Texas, and after my hubby had returned home, the ex-husband told us "the story" about what happened on my sis-in-law's last day of life - but his story changed every time he told it. As a result, we don't know if she committed suicide during an argument, if she shot herself while playing Russian Roulette, or if she just walked out of the bathroom with gun in hand and killed herself before her shocked ex because she was so upset that he refused to get back together with her.

    As a last note, we had to have our phone number changed twice ( to unlisted numbers) after my sis-in-law's death because her ex threatened to hunt US down here in Maine because we refused to allow him to have a stone made for her grave with HIS last name on it - partially because she is buried next to her mother in the family plot with OUR last name (that was on both her driver's license and the death certificate) and partially because WE footed the entire bill for the funeral and feel that, since he didn't pay a red cent for the funeral and had their marriage annulled after just six weeks with the claim she had "tricked" him into marrying her, that he doesn't have the right to claim her as his wife now that she's dead. (The reason it had to be done twice is that we gave the first one to a family member in Texas who shared it with the ex without our permission.)

    This whole situation is tearing my husband apart every summer, for as the anniversary of her death draws near, he starts to mull it over in his head again - and blames himself for not forcing his sis to "get out of Dodge" while she was still alive. Since his mother always made him feel responsible for his younger sister's actions, he is ridden with guilt over her death, and the stress of it all is really starting to tell on us, especially since we were at a benefit concert with our children, enjoying the 4th of July holiday, while his sister was dying in Texas. My husband is haunted by the fact that, with all the inconsistencies, he can never know what really happened that day.

    Can someone tell me if I should just let it all slide in hopes that, someday, my hubby will be able to get past his guilt feelings and just enjoy the 4th - or if I should be seeking a lawyer who can force the police to give us the information (especially those autopsy photos) that would be able to prove her ex-husband is responsible for her death so we can see the creep pay for what he did?

    Thanks in advance for looking into this for us.
    miki's Avatar
    miki Posts: 32, Reputation: 2
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    #2

    Sep 16, 2005, 05:16 AM
    Re:
    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerella
    Since the psychics who've responded to my questions on this forum have been so very helpful, I'd like to ask you to help me out one last time on something much more important than anything I've asked to date: Did my sister-in-law really commit suicide as the coroner's office has reported to us, or was this a botched murder investigation?

    Here are the facts as we know them:

    My sister-in-law, who was one year younger than I and three years younger than her brother (my husband), was living in Texas in 2001 and was in a relationship with a man who had several police reports filed against him for domestic abuse - some by my sis-in-law and some by his first wife. Although both my husband and I had begged her to leave the state, she had been told (by the ex-husband, whom she was seemingly having a "friendly" visit with on the day of her death) that he had "connections" who would be able to hunt her down and hurt her if she tried to run, so she remained within his reach until we got the call that she had died of a single gunshot wound to the head.

    When my husband went to the morgue in Texas to claim the body, he was shown a photograph showing the exit wound as being below and behind her left ear, almost at the edge of her skull, with the entrance wound at her right temple. The problem is that the coroner's report, which we recieved well after her funeral here in Maine, states that the exit wound was ABOVE the left ear. (We've never managed to get a copy of the photgraphs my husband was shown in the morgue to prove whether the written report was incorrect.)

    In going to the abusive ex-husband's home when he went to Texas to claim the body and dispose of his sister's worldly possessions that we couldn't afford to send home, my husband was told he couldn't be offered a seat in the living room because the ex had disposed of the couch "because that's where she died", yet the police report states she was on the floor of the home when the officers and EMT's arrived and that several attempts to revive her were made before she was pronounced dead. (Her hands were tested for gun powder residue, but despite the reports of having been shot at previously by the ex-husband's son in the very house where she died, the ex-husband's hands were never tested for gun powder - nor were his son's, who the ex claimed wasn't present at the time my sis-in-law "shot herself".)

    While speaking with us on the phone before my husband went to Texas, in conversations while my hubby was in Texas, and after my hubby had returned home, the ex-husband told us "the story" about what happened on my sis-in-law's last day of life - but his story changed every time he told it. As a result, we don't know if she committed suicide during an arguement, if she shot herself while playing Russian Roulette, or if she just walked out of the bathroom with gun in hand and killed herself before her shocked ex because she was so upset that he refused to get back together with her.

    As a last note, we had to have our phone number changed twice ( to unlisted numbers) after my sis-in-law's death because her ex threatened to hunt US down here in Maine because we refused to allow him to have a stone made for her grave with HIS last name on it - partially because she is buried next to her mother in the family plot with OUR last name (that was on both her driver's license and the death certificate) and partially because WE footed the entire bill for the funeral and feel that, since he didn't pay a red cent for the funeral and had their marriage annulled after just six weeks with the claim she had "tricked" him into marrying her, that he doesn't have the right to claim her as his wife now that she's dead. (The reason it had to be done twice is that we gave the first one to a family member in Texas who shared it with the ex without our permission.)

    This whole situation is tearing my husband apart every summer, for as the anniversary of her death draws near, he starts to mull it over in his head again - and blames himself for not forcing his sis to "get out of Dodge" while she was still alive. Since his mother always made him feel responsible for his younger sister's actions, he is ridden with guilt over her death, and the stress of it all is really starting to tell on us, especially since we were at a benefit concert with our children, enjoying the 4th of July holiday, while his sister was dying in Texas. My husband is haunted by the fact that, with all the inconsistencies, he can never know what really happened that day.

    Can someone tell me if I should just let it all slide in hopes that, someday, my hubby will be able to get past his guilt feelings and just enjoy the 4th - or if I should be seeking a lawyer who can force the police to give us the information (especially those autopsy photos) that would be able to prove her ex-husband is responsible for her death so we can see the creep pay for what he did?

    Thanks in advance for looking into this for us.
    Wow- This story is amazing.

    I am sorry your husband and your family have been going through so much pain.

    First, you definitely have to contact a lawyer because: 1) you have enough doubts (and possibly evidence) to re-open the case! 2)If the ex-husband is that dangerous, he will probably do it to other women; 3)Your husband will have some peace of mind in knowing more about what really happened, and possibly a sense of relief in knowing that he did everything he could to achieve justice for his sister before giving up.

    Second, I don't know if it's true that we can talk with our deceased ones, but this site offers impressive accounts and seemingly authentic testimonials of mediumship. People that have decided to do this often find peace of mind in "knowing" that their loved ones are alive somewhere, as well as answers to their questions. It is important to do it with people that are authentic mediums though, even if it's more expensive. Here is the website: http://www.bestpsychicmediums.com/

    Read it and decide for yourself. This is just a resource I'm putting at your disposal. Again, I don't know if this is true, but it comes across as honest.

    Third, your husband would probably benefit from some grief counseling. That would help him reach some closure and get over the guilt feelings. From what you mention, he might also have some sort of "secondary trauma" (trauma from hearing about a shocking event). Both homicide and suicide are very traumatic for family members. If he was traumatized by the event, it will be hard to get over it without addressing the trauma. Traumatic memories get inprinted in our emotional system and may affect us for years.

    Again, I'm just hypothesizing based on what you described. A licensed counselor can assess whether his reaction is affected by trauma and whether his grief reaction is maladaptive and can benefit from therapy.

    Hope this helps. All the best,

    Miki.
    ranieri's Avatar
    ranieri Posts: 136, Reputation: 13
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    #3

    Sep 17, 2005, 08:25 AM
    Tigerella
    I know it is an old post. But it has come up again for a couple of reasons. Your sisiter in law wants you to stop feeling guilty and enjoy your summers once again She did not like all of this attention when she was alive and does not appear to care for it at all as she is passed.
    Mother passed the buck on to brother . Whole life onto son the responsibility of HER daughter onto him. Not fair not his responsibility period. Her life with this man was sisters in laws responsbility if you had lived near by she would not have let you get involved and would have kept it to her self. You knew because you were long didstance and could not interfere
    Mother didn't have the support from her man to help in life so next available man was him. She rather passive in her life.
    Death was not suicide. But there was some sort of strange game energy thing going on. For whatever reason she agreed to it. He was cheating on her big time. And I believe he did not do it. He is covering up for this girlfriend or ho at the time. And now she is being tortured by him much like your sister was. He cheats on her and is violent with her also.

    The main point is your sister-in-law wants the matter dropped. No investigation. Move on with your life, there are energies at work behind the scenes that have been set into motion. That she is working on and it is imperative that you stay out of it or she will not be able to finish with this energy. She greatly appreciates allllllll that you have done in her name. But let go and let her and God finish.
    She wants children to have fun again and knows of the great guilt her brother carries. She says it will break his back literally if he does not give it up. And there appears to be some evidences of this already.
    She is always with you and yours and will provide comfort when she can for you and yours. But she says brother is so wrecked with pain he does not receive the many blessings she sends your way
    She also says instead of changing your number you need to change the name and the way it is listed until she can take care of his energy in her own time. Don't worry about being listed right now. Do not even acknowlaedge the fact that he is calling you other than reporting to police harassing phone calls and threats. There needs to be a record of this she says, even if it is only the phone company that records it. She asked that no more energy from you all go to this any more than that. Don't try to take him on yourselves, don't threaten him. Make record to police and keep diary of calls or messages and what is said.
    You are being asked to take fresh flowers to her site and place on grave once a week. She doesn't want you to go through a lot of expense to do this. She says flowers from your garden or what ever will do even if it is a daisy or two. This is energy she needs to do what she needs to do on the otherside. She tells me she derives her energy from the essence of the flowers. And since she was passive on this planet she gathers some of her strength from brother and you who care to accomplish this.
    At this time I am not getting a time frame as to how long to continue this, except as long as it takes her to accomplish her goals. I kind of see a year, 9 months to a year or a year and a half. Peace ranieri
    tyieka's Avatar
    tyieka Posts: 34, Reputation: 6
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    #4

    Dec 8, 2005, 11:23 AM
    Please email me at [email protected] I will do everything I can to help right this wrong and get justice.
    tiggerella's Avatar
    tiggerella Posts: 184, Reputation: 13
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    #5

    Dec 9, 2005, 06:06 AM
    A response - and update - for all who answered me
    My thanks to you all for your suggestions. I didn't get email notifications on the first two responses, but when the notification came for the third, I came in and read all at once.

    Special thanks to ranieri for the answers my husband needs to see. There was a rumor that the ex-hubby had often enticed sis into games of Russian Roulette - and although he often wouldn't load the gun, the suspicion from many of her close friends was that he had put in more than just the one live round and made sure she got the gun first.

    No charges need to be pressed against the ex, as we got word from his daughter in September of 2005 that he had died mysteriously in the same house where sis lost her life - and his wife at that time, whose divorce from him was to be finalized in October, refused to allow his family to have his ashes for a full military burial. We've been saying it was Karma catching up to him, but I've also had a feeling sis gained enough energy to "help" get justice.

    Blessed be to you all, and thank you for the responses.
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #6

    Feb 25, 2012, 08:41 AM
    Definitely murder. The exist wound in a suicide case would ideally be ABOVE the ear but if the exit wound was below the left ear it means that it wasn't a suicide. Its impossible for the bullet to exit below the ear in suicide cases. The position in which people commit suicide makes it impossible and unless she was a master yogi it would be extremely difficult to commit suicide in the position corresponding with an exit below the ear.
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Feb 25, 2012, 08:44 AM
    I'm not a psychic but I know enough about forensics that if the exit wound was below the ear then the gun was held by someone else.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #8

    Feb 25, 2012, 09:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Question_All View Post
    Definitely murder. The exist wound in a suicide case would ideally be ABOVE the ear but if the exit wound was below the left ear it means that it wasn't a suicide. Its impossible for the bullet to exit below the ear in suicide cases. The position in which people commit suicide makes it impossible and unless she was a master yogi it would be extremely difficult to commit suicide in the position corresponding with an exit below the ear.

    Would you post your source for this info? What position do people use to commit suicide by shooting themselves in the head?
    tiggerella's Avatar
    tiggerella Posts: 184, Reputation: 13
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    #9

    Feb 26, 2012, 06:56 AM
    Since I've had a couple of extra postings on this thread, I wanted to thank everyone yet again for the input and give a little update. Despite hearing that the ex-husband had passed, my husband still had a drinking problem over this until 4 years ago, when he got into major trouble for DUI and joined a support group. I'm pleased to say that he is now "clean and sober", though we have a running joke about him trading his drinking problem for a fishing problem. (Instead of coming home and having a couple of beers, he comes in and ties a couple of flies for fly fishing, which he then uses when he goes off on fishing trips with friends.) The house has settled into a much more peaceful situation, and he has come to grips with the idea that, since his sister was "free, white and over 21", we really couldn't do anything more to prevent this from happening.

    Blessings to all of you for your observations and offers of assistance.
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #10

    Mar 1, 2012, 11:14 AM
    The most common methods of suicide via head-shot are usually placing your gun under your chin, in your mouth or at your temple before pulling the trigger but to put a gun in such a position that the bullet would exit below the ear would be very uncomfortable and therefore a exit wound below the ear is usually indicates murder. If the exit wound was below the ear it probably means that the gun was fired by someone taller then the victim or while the victim was on its knees.
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #11

    Mar 1, 2012, 11:16 AM
    But its strange because any competent forensic examiner would be able to recognize this.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #12

    Mar 1, 2012, 11:33 AM
    I find this statement simply not to be true: "Its impossible for the bullet to exit below the ear in suicide cases." It depends on the position of the suicidal shooter. There are suicides where people are prone. I find the word "impossible" to be inappropriate.

    People commit suicide with propped up shotguns, they slip, they slide, they move.

    Again, not impossible.
    odinn7's Avatar
    odinn7 Posts: 7,691, Reputation: 1547
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    #13

    Mar 1, 2012, 01:29 PM
    I agree with Judy. There is also size of gun and caliber of bullet to consider. A smaller caliber bullet could very well deviate from it's course and exit lower than you would expect. Also, if it was a smaller gun, it is possible the gun was held higher on the head during a suicide.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #14

    Mar 1, 2012, 01:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Question_All View Post
    But its strange because any competent forensic examiner would be able to recognize this.
    Would be able to recognize what? Forensic examiners are incorrect on a fairly consistent basis.

    Would I request a second examiner if I doubted the conclusions of the first? Yes.
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #15

    Mar 2, 2012, 04:37 PM
    Just try out the position required with a toy gun and assume the bullet is going straight(And bullets usually doesn't deviate much during suicide since most bullet deviations these days are caused by wind) although I guess it could be plausible if the wound was caused by a low quality fire-arm but the fact that the entrance wound was at the right temple and the exit wound below the left ear strongly supports my hypothesis.
    odinn7's Avatar
    odinn7 Posts: 7,691, Reputation: 1547
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    #16

    Mar 2, 2012, 11:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Question All
    And bullets usually doesn't deviate much during suicide since most bullet deviations these days are caused by wind
    You know much about ballistics, do you?
    tiggerella's Avatar
    tiggerella Posts: 184, Reputation: 13
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    #17

    Mar 3, 2012, 05:08 AM
    WOW! Quite the discussion going on in here this week!

    Just to clear up the questions, the gun was a well-kept 45, as the ex-husband was former military and had that "my gun is my only friend" mentality. Our biggest questions in this come from the difference in the coroners written report and the photographs my husband was shown for him to identify the body. (He was never allowed to see the body itself as it took a couple of days for us to arrange for the flight from Maine to Texas, and the body had been sent out for embalming in preparation for transfer to the funeral home in Maine we had chosen.) When he tried to speak to the police about why they hadn't done a more thorough investigation of a man who should have been on their radar as an abuser, he was informed "We were told it was a suicide and there are thousands of suicides here in San Antonio every year. We don't investigate suicides."

    One of the biggest questions we've had is this: Between the direction the bullet moved (bringing back shadows of "the magic bullet" theory from the JFK assassination), the missing couch (as the ex had removed a lamp with a bullet hole in it the last time his son took a shot at my sis-in-law between when she got shot at and when the police arrived) and the differences in the report from the coroner vs what my husband was shown, was there a conspiracy involved? The ex-husband, per most of the people who spoke to my husband, was a well known dealer in methamphetamines, but the police never arrested him for that no matter how many people filed reports to that effect. Could there have been someone on his payroll who covered this up?

    We may never know, but I do appreciate the discussion you all are having...
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #18

    Mar 3, 2012, 07:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Question_All View Post
    just try out the position required with a toy gun and assume the bullet is going straight(And bullets usually doesn't deviate much during suicide since most bullet deviations these days are caused by wind) although I guess it could be plausible if the wound was caused by a low quality fire-arm but the fact that the entrance wound was at the right temple and the exit wound below the left ear strongly supports my hypothesis.

    There is absolutely no scenario using a toy "gun" that translates into an actual experience with an authentic (and much heavier) "gun." I find the use of the word pistol to be more appropriate, by the way.

    You are not understanding that your use of the word "impossible" negates your entire theory...
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #19

    Mar 3, 2012, 07:11 AM
    Tiggerella, thank you for sharing so much info. This really is - for lack of another word - a fascinating scenario. This is the stuff of Ann Rule books!
    Question_All's Avatar
    Question_All Posts: 26, Reputation: 2
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    #20

    Apr 6, 2012, 10:06 AM
    Goodness no I'm not equating the a toy gun to a 45. Cal but I was rather trying to give you an idea of what position would be required for the exit wound to be located under the ear. Also a 45. Fullmetal jacket round fired at point blank range will of course be going fairly straight so the position of the gun is extremely important in relation to the exit wound. With a good well-maintained 45. Caliber gun and a fullmetal jacket its quite certain that the bullet did not deviate much from original point of entry so in reality the original hypothesis I posted coould be applied with a fair amount of accuracy.

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