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    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #41

    Nov 28, 2008, 07:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    I think your voc eval is too old to use but you might go to the evaluator and ask for an update based upon the current economy and ask the evaluator assume your ex is still in good health. That might be an inexpensive way of doing it. Be sure the ex is noticed on what you are doing so that there are no surprises. Then call the evaluator to testify at trial.

    Most commentators would agree that if she moved to SC and hasn't the same job opportunities there as in California that's her problem. The court should assess job opportunities and income as if she were still in California and impute income on that basis, not based on what's going on in SC. After all, the move was her choice.
    Yes, I was thinking that might be the case, it's too old. She is definitely healthier now, she is holding down a full time job. An update VOC EVAL is going to cost me but it may be well worth it.

    That is good news about basing her income on California. That I always wondered about. Initially when the judge imputed income it was $10/hr. Her earning capacity is at least $25 to $30 entry level. It may have been because the judge felt she was still "clinically depressed" or partially because she moved to a new state, I don't know. My attorney never questioned it and it made little difference in the permanent alimony. It had the effect that once she did get a part time job, it did not reduce the alimony at all. I recall that my attorney said they had a conference without me present about permanent support. I was in the courthouse waiting for my attorney and she failed to come get me. It's not that big a place, she simply didn't look for me, the clueless one. I always sit right next to the dept door now. I learned that lesson quick.

    I am still anxiously waiting for the Responsive Declaration and Request for Production of Documents. That should give me a clue as to how hard headed they are going to be. The ex traveled from S.C. to St. Louis with BF in tow to attend T-day dinner with family. Hard to defend against cohabitation with that kind of exposure. I am still hopeful they will stipulate cohabitation. But then they will have all kinds of reasons I should still keep paying. The guy is probably "clinically depressed" also :) or at least subnormal IQ (now, that's not nice). I expect they will delay in any way they can and try to continue the proceedings forever. Each time though, my ex will pay attorney fees, thereby accomplishing one of my missions, to wear her down.

    The deadline for her response is Dec. 10. I can hardly wait. Keep you posted.
    cadillac59's Avatar
    cadillac59 Posts: 1,326, Reputation: 94
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    #42

    Nov 28, 2008, 08:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paintmadman View Post
    Yes, I was thinking that might be the case, it's too old. She is definitely healthier now, she is holding down a full time job. An update VOC EVAL is going to cost me but it may be well worth it.

    That is good news about basing her income on California. That I always wondered about. Initially when the judge imputed income it was $10/hr. Her earning capacity is at least $25 to $30 entry level. It may have been because the judge felt she was still "clinically depressed" or partially because she moved to a new state, I don't know. My attorney never questioned it and it made little difference in the permanent alimony. It had the effect that once she did get a part time job, it did not reduce the alimony at all. I recall that my attorney said they had a conference without me present about permanent support. I was in the courthouse waiting for my attorney and she failed to come get me. It's not that big a place, she simply didn't look for me, the clueless one. I always sit right next to the dept door now. I learned that lesson quick.

    I am still anxiously waiting for the Responsive Declaration and Request for Production of Documents. That should give me a clue as to how hard headed they are going to be. The ex traveled from S.C. to St. Louis with BF in tow to attend T-day dinner with family. Hard to defend against cohabitation with that kind of exposure. I am still hopeful they will stipulate cohabitation. But then they will have all kinds of reasons why I should still keep paying. The guy is probably "clinically depressed" also :) or at least subnormal IQ (now, that's not nice). I expect they will delay in any way they can and try to continue the proceedings forever. Each time though, my ex will pay attorney fees, thereby accomplishing one of my missions, to wear her down.

    The deadline for her response is Dec. 10. I can hardly wait. Keep you posted.
    Yeah, let me know how it goes.

    On the issue of effect of the move to SC on imputing income, I base what I said (about using opportunities in California instead of SC) on what I recall a family law expert saying at a seminar I attended 3 years ago. This was a 7 day seminar on family law designed to prepare attorneys for the Specialist Examination in Family law (a requirement for Family Law board certification). The presenter was probably the most prominent family law expert in the state who regularly puts on seminars for judges and is generally reputed to be California's family law guru (he's the guy who developed the DissoMaster program). This very question came up about imputing earning capacity to a person who moves out of state and he said that, although there was no direct case law on point, he believed that we would still use California job opportunities in gauging earning capacity. I think he said something like, "that would seem the correct result." So hey, if anyone knows, believe me THIS guy knows.

    Good luck.
    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #43

    Dec 10, 2008, 03:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    Yeah, let me know how it goes.

    On the issue of effect of the move to SC on imputing income, I base what I said (about using opportunities in California instead of SC) on what I recall a family law expert saying at a seminar I attended 3 years ago. This was a 7 day seminar on family law designed to prepare attorneys for the Specialist Examination in Family law (a requirement for Family Law board certification). The presenter was probably the most prominent family law expert in the state who regularly puts on seminars for judges and is generally reputed to be California's family law guru (he's the guy who developed the DissoMaster program). This very question came up about imputing earning capacity to a person who moves out of state and he said that, although there was no direct case law on point, he believed that we would still use California job opportunities in gauging earning capacity. I think he said something like, "that would seem the correct result." So hey, if anyone knows, believe me THIS guy knows.

    Good luck.
    Dear Mr. Cadillac59, today I may have won a battle, although I am not certain as yet. I just received a Substitution of Attorney MC-050. As of now, my ex is representing herself. Which means she will either not show up at the hearing (which would fit her pose as the helpless female but do her case no good) or she has found a pro bono miracle attorney who will take a very weak case.

    If she doesn't show, will I get what I asked for? Termination of (not just zero) alimony? Or she does show up, will the judge take pity on the poor helpless adulteress even if she presents no defense?

    What's your guess?
    cadillac59's Avatar
    cadillac59 Posts: 1,326, Reputation: 94
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    #44

    Dec 10, 2008, 05:17 PM

    The fact that your ex is pro per may help (if she had a pro bono lawyer he would have been on the sub of attorney I would have thought). It won't mean you automatically win of course. But it can make thinks easier and level the playing field.

    I doubt very much your ex will get any pity for being unrepresented. About 70-80% of family law litigants are pro per so judges see that all the time.

    You still should be prepared to put on your case but, as I said, the playing field is a bit leveler now.
    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #45

    Dec 10, 2008, 06:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    The fact that your ex is pro per may help (if she had a pro bono lawyer he would have been on the sub of attorney I would have thought). It won't mean you automatically win of course. But it can make thinks easier and level the playing field.

    I doubt very much your ex will get any pity for being unrepresented. About 70-80% of family law litigants are pro per so judges see that all the time.

    You still should be prepared to put on your case but, as I said, the playing field is a bit leveler now.
    I answered too soon. I just received by UPS her responsive declaration. In it she AGREES TO TERMINATION OF SPOUSAL SUPPORT!!

    I am so happy I could S**T! You have helped me to win the battle and the WAR! Thank you so very much.

    But as always, I have a question. Is there a way to avoid the hearing by just correspondence? Also my ex signed the proof of service, does that make it invalid?

    PMM
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    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #46

    Dec 10, 2008, 06:07 PM
    One more thing, the I & E nor the Responsive Declaration are not stamped. Does this mean I have to file them with the court?

    It's always something!

    PMM
    cadillac59's Avatar
    cadillac59 Posts: 1,326, Reputation: 94
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    #47

    Dec 10, 2008, 06:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paintmadman View Post
    One more thing, the I & E nor the Responsive Declaration are not stamped. Does this mean I have to file them with the court?

    It's always something!

    PMM
    Her Responsive Dec and I& E would normally not be file-stamped because she was suppose to mail you the copies before they were filed. It doesn't mean she didn't file them (you are suppose to include a POS to show you did serve them however). I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other.

    If you and your ex agree on terminating support you should prepare a stip and order terminating the current order of support and terminating spousal support jurisdiction. If you do, and you get your ex to sign off on it (probably would be a good idea to have it notarized although this isn't an absolute necessity), all you would need to do is file it with the court and have it submitted to the judge for signature. You should also include in the order that the hearing on the OSC is vacated (I always do that) and once it is signed you will not need to appear in court. If there is a wage assignment you need to do another one showing support to be zero to clean things up.

    Alternatively you both could appear in court at the hearing on the OSC (I think I recall you saying it was set this month, can't recall the date) and you could then inform the judge that you settled things. If you do be sure to put your agreement on the record in open court, with a court reporter, and ask the judge to voir dire the both of you about your agreement. That way the agreement will be enforeable and it will be very difficult for her to back out of it. Until she either signs a stip or you put the agreement on the record in court she can change her mind. So be sure you do one or the other.

    If you put the agreement on the record be sure to prepare a Findings and Order After Heaing memorializing your agreement showing support jurisdiction is terminated.

    Glad it worked out for you!
    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #48

    Dec 13, 2008, 11:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    Glad it worked out for you!
    Update: I wrote up a Stipulation and Order which said we agreed to:
    1. Terminate all spousal support payments. 2. Forgive any arrears. 3. Vacate the motion and cancel the hearing. 4. Rescind the EEO on me and cancel the review hearing. 5. Rescind the Wage Assignment on my former employer. And finally 6. Terminate jurisdiction concerning spousal support permanently and irrevocably.

    Did I leave anything out? Of course she has yet to sign this. But her responsive declaration already agreed to termination. She seems pretty anxious to get it over with. But her statement goes on an on about how she really didn't want alimony or the EEO on me, her attorney quit her because she wanted to be fair and he wanted to be hardassed and her boyfriend only stays over when the flood has washed out the bridge and she loves her job and doesn't want an EEO, and her boyfriend helps homeless people for minimum wage and can't contribute financially and he has a brain disease and they are both nervous wrecks because of private eyes following them everywhere, etc. etc. It's quite sad actually, if you believe it.

    With the stip I am trying to speed things up and avoid returning to court, where who knows what might happen. Every time I walk through those metal detectors something bad happens.
    cadillac59's Avatar
    cadillac59 Posts: 1,326, Reputation: 94
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    #49

    Dec 13, 2008, 11:28 AM

    Sounds like you covered everything.

    Tell her she needs a better boyfriend (only stays over when a flood has washed out the bridge?. only helps homeless people for minimum wage? He sounds like he needs a home himself!)

    Good luck.
    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #50

    Dec 13, 2008, 11:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    Sounds like you covered everything.

    Tell her she needs a better boyfriend (only stays over when a flood has washed out the bridge?...only helps homeless people for minimum wage? He sounds like he needs a home himself!)

    Good luck.

    Hahahahahahahahahaha, I genuinely laughed out loud!! Thanks again. You are a life saver!:)
    paintmadman's Avatar
    paintmadman Posts: 31, Reputation: 0
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    #51

    Jan 4, 2009, 02:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac59 View Post
    Sounds like you covered everything.

    Tell her she needs a better boyfriend (only stays over when a flood has washed out the bridge?...only helps homeless people for minimum wage? He sounds like he needs a home himself!)

    Good luck.
    One final note of thanks. I appeared in court on Dec 23 and she didn't, not even by phone. So the judge read my stipulation into the record (since my ex never signed it) and gave me everything I asked for. Complete termination of jurisdiction, etc. I can still hardly believe it. It was the best Xmas present I ever got from her! Many many thanks for your help and encouragement. 2009, the best year ever!

    About becoming an attorney, I never want to see another courtroom, sorry!

    Happy New Year
    PMM

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