[Wondergirl]

proof being all around. How does one separate themselves from that?

What proof?

[waltero]

And here we go again.

What proof?

Faith!
Faith is the substance

Faith is the proof...literal Proof!
God calls us to live instead by faith.

[Wondergirl]

And here we go again.


Faith!
Faith is the substance

Faith is the proof...literal Proof!
God calls us to live instead by faith.

That's not proof, waltero.

[Athos]

Isn't that the basis for an atheist point of view???

My understanding of the basis for an atheist point of view is that they deny the existence of God. From that it therefore follows that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated/proven.

I'm confused. Are you saying Jesus hasn't demonstrated? or that Jesus is not God???

The issue never considered anything about Jesus - it was strictly on proving the existence of God. If you want to do Jesus questions, it's best to start a thread to discuss that.

It was intended to show the wrong approach of evangelicals (and some other Christians) to the question of God when these folks tried to PROVE God.

Not necessarily a bad thing is it?

If the intention is to spread God's message, yes it is a bad thing since it is false (as you have demonstrated). In any case, it's falsity alone makes it a bad thing.

living in a world of faith...proof being all around.

Are you now taking back your statement that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated? When your head stops spinning around, let's hope it's facing front.

How does one separate themselves from that?

In a world of faith, why would one want to?

Without faith, it is all wrong.

WHAT is all wrong? Remember, faith is not fact. Belief is not fact-based knowledge.

[waltero]

Remember, faith is not fact.

'Our' faith is grounded in the fact of the resurrection, our faith has to be based on something true or our faith is in vain.

In a world of faith, why would one want to?

According to you, a Christian (you) would have too.
"To show the wrong approach." Involving the question of God when trying to PROVE God.
A person would have to be (temporarily or otherwise) in a world without faith. Having to deny the proof. Proof of Scripture, life of Jesus, Crucifixion of Jesus, resurrection etc. Faith Brings all this to life. Faith is the Idea that comes to life.

[talaniman]

Faith needs no basis in fact or truth. That's why it is FAITH.

[Athos]

'Our' faith is grounded in the fact of the resurrection,

No, it is grounded in your BELIEF in the resurrection.

our faith has to be based on something true or our faith is in vain.

Not necessarily. People believe in the darndest things, and it works for them.

According to you, a Christian (you) would have too.
"To show the wrong approach." To the question of God when trying to PROVE God.

Please clarify. Are you no longer editing before you publish?

[waltero]

Please clarify. Are you no longer editing before you publish?

I publish then edit. Here is what I have so far.

According to you, a Christian (you) would have too.
"To show the wrong approach." Involving the question of God when trying to PROVE God.
A person would have to be (temporarily or otherwise) in a world without faith, having to deny the proof. Proof of Scripture, life of Jesus, Crucifixion of Jesus, resurrection etc. Faith Brings all this to life. Faith is the Idea that comes to life.

People believe in the darndest things, and it works for them.

100% true. We both know, there can only be one.

John 20:31 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Jesu is the man whose life has been enacted on this human stage, is the Christ, has fulfilled the entire idea of the Messiah and is now the realization.

Add faith to the realization...Realization of the Bible.

[Wondergirl]

I publish then edit.

Proof of Scripture, life of Jesus, Crucifixion of Jesus, resurrection etc.

Edit, then publish! Write short, simple sentences. You get your thoughts all tangled up as you post them. You are trying to sound very spiritually awake but it too often comes out as gibberish.

Scripture is not proof.

[Athos]

I publish then edit.

Nice to know you have a sense of humor. I suspected as much.

"To show the wrong approach." Involving the question of God when trying to PROVE God.
A person would have to be (temporarily or otherwise) in a world without faith, having to deny the proof. Proof of Scripture, life of Jesus, Crucifixion of Jesus, resurrection etc. Faith Brings all this to life. Faith is the Idea that comes to life.

I'm going to take a shot at this. If I'm off base, please set me straight.

Take a Hindu who is deeply religious but doesn't believe in Jesus - Scripture, Crucifixion, Resurrection, etc. - how does she factor into your quote above. Like I said, I may be misreading you. If so, try again.

[waltero]

Scripture is not proof.

Faith in the Scriptures is all the proof I need.
Faith Requires Focus. What are your eyes focused on?
Eliminate the Bible, there is no Jesus.

Edit, then publish!

I do, but then I post and begin to edit, then some more, and a bit more, yet even more. it does get exhausting. But I think I enjoy it and I hope to learn much more.

how does she factor into your quote above.

She doesn't. 

"To show the wrong approach." Involving the question of God. When trying to PROVE God.
A person would have to be (temporarily or otherwise) in a world without faith, having to deny the Faith.

It's more like- how does Athos, factor into the quote above? Yourself being a man of faith...you would have to be Playing (and that's OK) **** advocate???  By adamantly discrediting (Creation, History, Jesus, Crucified, reresection, ascension, book of life, Bible etc.) everything that is taken by faith.

I think the Argument got so heated that we forgot which side we were on. Dangerous for one to shed his faith, for even one second.

Have you ever spoke something into effect, using nothing but faith (doubt doesn't exist)? 

[Athos]

Faith in the Scriptures is all the proof I need.

Good for you. But not good for everyone.

Eliminate the Bible, there is no Jesus.

I would agree, but others here have claimed evidence for Jesus can be found outside the Bible. They never actually showed that evidence.

do, but then I post and begin to edit, then some more, and a bit more, yet even more. it does get exhausting. But I think I enjoy it and I hope to learn much more.

Keep up the good work. We all have trouble navigating a new website. It takes time. You're improving. You'll find this one is excellent with many features. Thanks to owner Roel.

Here's a hint: To get the other person's comments in that gray box beginning with an arrow at top left - click "reply with quote" on the bottom right of his/her message, then decide which part of the quote you want to post, at the beginning of that part type in the paren-type thing at the bottom to the right of the "P", then in caps QUOTE, then at the end that paren-type thing again, only this time the other one at the bottom (like a closed paren) at the end of the part. Then at the end of the quote do the same thing EXCEPT type in forward slash right after the open paren. That tells it to put the part in the gray box. Then continue on with your comments and repeat as needed. When finished, take two aspirin and go to bed. I'll sent the bill in the morning. (I think there's an easier way to do it, but I haven't advanced that far yet).

It's more like- how does Athos, factor into the quote above? Yourself being a man of faith...you would have to be Playing (and that's OK) **** advocate???

I have always been interested in religion and spirituality. To go any further about myself at this time would not be fruitful. I don't think it should matter anyway.

By adamantly discrediting everything that is taken by faith.

I have NEVER discredited anyone's faith. If I see someone with a very bad idea of faith, I will probably point it out. But not discreditly, and certainly not adamantly.

Have you ever willed something into effect with nothing but faith

Nope. Even Superman can't do that.

(doubt doesn't exist)?

Sure, it exists. Some say faith can't exist without doubt. I'm on the fence with that.

[waltero]

I have NEVER discredited anyone's faith.

What I have been trying to say; By adhering to said statement you might be discrediting your own faith.

anything that is taken with faith.
(Creation, life, History, GOD, Jesus, Love, Crucified, reresection, ascension, book of life, science, biology, Bible etc.)

You have denounced (even if for argument sake only)?

[Athos]

What I have been trying to say; By adhering to said statement you might be discrediting your own faith.

You lost me with that one.

You have denounced (even if for argument sake only)?

Ah, Waldo. And you were doing so well up to that craziness. Are you reverting? At this stage, don't stoop to lying - that will leave you without ANY credibility.

[waltero]

As a believer- faith in what?
Or does your faith just appear out of osmosis?
__________________________________________________ _________disregard________________________________ ____________________
I believe in Jesus...show me proof? There is no proof..."does "your" faith count for anything? What of others faith, it plays no role?
It's not "your" faith that counts. Faith doesnt come from you. Why do we have this physical body operating in Gods creation?

I'm trying n g to get at something. I'm on my phone right now, can't type. Ignore most of this. I will edit later.

[Athos]

As a believer- faith in what?
Or does your faith just appear out of osmosis?
__________________________________________________ _________disregard________________________________ ____________________
I believe in Jesus...show me proof? There is no proof..."does "your" faith count for anything? What of others faith, it plays no role?
It's not "your" faith that counts. Faith doesnt come from you. Why do we have this physical body operating in Gods creation?

I'm trying n g to get at something. I'm on my phone right now, can't type. Ignore most of this. I will edit later.

Consider it ignored. I have no idea what you're trying to say. Keep it simple.

[talaniman]

What it means to believe God

It means you have a fine start in learning about the universe and where you fit in on this journey of finding understanding of what we call life.

[Wondergirl]

What it means to believe God
It means you have a fine start in learning about the universe and where you fit in on this journey of finding understanding of what we call life.

And how to relate to God's creation, the environment, animals, and especially to other people.

[Athos]

What it means to believe God


It means you have a fine start in learning about the universe and where you fit in on this journey of finding understanding of what we call life.

Posted by WG
And how to relate to God's creation, the environment, animals, and especially to other people.

Both good answers - both work for me. I hope you appreciate them, too, Walter.

[Wondergirl]

Two of the most loving and giving people I know are Sikhs:

• There is only one God
• God is without form, or gender
• Everyone has direct access to God
• Everyone is equal before God
• A good life is lived as part of a community, by living honestly and caring for others

(Sound familiar, all you Christians?)