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Christfollower · Jul 15, 2009, 01:24 PM

I have many friends who are gay and have not chosen to be that way. I always thought God gave us differences so that we could look past them and accept each other for who we are and not worry about differences or faults. I know it says in the Bible that being gay is a sin, but it always says there is no greater commandment than to love your neighbor as yourself and the love God the Father with everything we are.

Tj3 · Jul 15, 2009, 01:42 PM

No, it doesn't.

When we come to Christ, we come with whatever failings and whatever sins that we have, and we take them to the cross, and it is His righteousness that is imputed to us. But just as we would not expect a person to engages in any other sin to continue in that sin unchanged, if a person is truly changed, then we should expect to see that change reflected in their life. Perhaps not immediately, but the person should start having their desires changed from those of the "old man" to those of the "newman", regardless of what sins we engaged in prior to being saved.

Rom 6:1-2
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
NKJV

God calls us to change and we see that some in the church in Corinth were homosexuals and were changed after they received Christ.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

galveston · Jul 15, 2009, 01:59 PM

For your edification:

Rom 1:18-24
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
(KJV)

Lev 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
(KJV)

Deut 23:17
17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
(KJV)

IKing 14:24
24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
(KJV)

IKing 15:12
12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
(KJV)

IKing 22:46
46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.
(KJV)

II Ki 23:7
7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
(KJV)

Joel 3:3
3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
(KJV)

Matt 19:4-5
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
(KJV)

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

That's the bad news.

The good news is that Jesus saves FROM sin and those bound by perversions can be set free if they want to be.

adam7gur · Jul 16, 2009, 01:56 AM

As a Christ's student I would say the same as my teacher did say to all of us sinners.
Go and sin no more!
We are all God's beloved sons and daughters,but that does not mean that He loves our acts as well.
God's love is not the case here,but it is who do we love more,God or sin?

JBOY345 · Jul 16, 2009, 02:01 AM

Yea plan and simple that's as simple as adam and eve

Tj3 · Jul 16, 2009, 06:29 AM

Here is a relevant news article that appeared this morning:

Homosexuality to Heterosexuality: Can the Transition Be Made? - Health - Israel News - Israel National News

classyT · Jul 16, 2009, 07:05 AM

There is no such thing as someone being less of a Christian. You either ARE or you aren't. If you are IN Christ how can you be Less in HIM?

The real issue is whether we die to our sinful desires. I don't struggle with homosexuality... I have my OWN sin struggles. I have had times in my Christian walk where I have been on fire for the Lord and times when I chose to live for myself and actually questioned my own salvation or Christianity. When we live to fulfill our sinful desires and we are believers this is normal. We are always in a war.

We as Christians need to come to terms with what God has to say about right and wrong. Not what the world says.. because they will tell you... 'if it feels good... do it". But God says....there is pleasure in Sin for a SEASON. Any sin has some pleasure in it or we wouldn't struggle with it.

So the answer is NO....it just makes you part of the human race. But as Adam7gur posted the Lord's standard is "go and sin No More". We need to die to our sinfull desires.

sndbay · Jul 16, 2009, 07:52 AM

What comes to mind is that we are not to call any unclean that God has made clean. So once we answer the calling by confessed faith in Christ Jesus, we are to walk as HE walked.

Phl 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Faith in Christ set us free from the curse of law, and the curse of sin. We have been delivered and redeemed by the law of Faith in Christ.

So we are to use causion, and in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let all our requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Phl 4:6-7)

Our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus stands at the door for those who seek HIM

Phl 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

It's a matter of who we follow, and when we decide to deny ourselves to follow Christ in the Law of Faith

Christfollower · Jul 16, 2009, 09:16 AM

Thank you all for your advice. It makes a lot of sense to me.

sndbay · Jul 16, 2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

There is no such thing as someone being less of a Christian. You either ARE or you aren't. If you are IN Christ how can you be Less in HIM?

ClassyT, I trust you and Tom would agree that there are those that can be double minded? In the book of revelation it was shown how there were 7 churches IN Christ, yet less then what was pleasing to God, 5 of those churches need to repent.

Correct me if I am not on the same page with your thoughts on being less of a Christians..***************************

And that scripture tells us, each is given grace in accordance of measure of the gift of Christ (Eph 4:7)

Would this be a level difference between men in their faith? Yes

Until an individual conforms from the old man of deceit and lust into the newness of life or renewed spirit of mind, they are not yet in the fullness of Christ.

The full measure is in putting on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Eph 4:24)

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

~In Christ

Tj3 · Jul 16, 2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by sndbay

ClassyT, I trust you and Tom would agree that there are those that can be double minded? In the book of revelation it was shown how there were 7 churches IN Christ, yet less then what was pleasing to God, 5 of those churches need to repent.

Correct me if I am not on the same page with your thoughts on being less of a Christians..***************************

Sndbay,

I for one am not sure what you are thinking of with one being "less of a Christian". One cannot be partially saved, or have enough salvation to get halfway to heaven and be stuck. One is either saved or not saved - that is how I see it.

And that scripture tells us, each is given grace in accordance of measure of the gift of Christ (Eph 4:7)

Would this be a level difference between men in their faith? Yes

Certainly we can have differing level a of faith, but that does not relate to differing levels of salvation. It does not depend upon our faithfulness (thank goodness or I think that we would all be in trouble - myself included), but rather upon HIS faithfulness.

Until an individual conforms from the old man of deceit and lust into the newness of life or renewed spirit of mind, they are not yet in the fullness of Christ.

That is sanctification - growing to be more like Christ. That starts AFTER we are saved, so again it does not make a person more or less of a Christian, or more or less saved, just a person who is more or less mature in the faith, or more or less sanctified.

sndbay · Jul 16, 2009, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Sndbay,

One cannot be partially saved, or have enough salvation to get halfway to heaven and be stuck. One is either saved or not saved - that is how I see it.

Agree...

However the statement was being less of a christian is not possible.. The point made was not whether we can be less then saved.

This would be whether all that call themselves Christian can be saved?(We are not saying that or asking)
What is being questioned in my posting is, Can someone call themselve a Christain and be less then what is pleasing to God? I trust they can because of the level of faith. We are not to judge salvation yet we are to discern the action of occurance. (example : are the actions of homosexuality less then Christian?)

Originally Posted by Tj3

It does not depend upon our faithfulness (thank goodness or I think that we would all be in trouble - myself included), but rather upon HIS faithfulness.

We are asked to be faithful, and remain stedfast in faith of Christ Jesus. Yet we can not be puffed up one against the other, for the glory of all is in the Father. As it is written: For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. (1 Corinthians 4:2-4)

Tj3 · Jul 16, 2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by sndbay

Agree...

However the statement was being less of a christian is not possible.. The point made was not whether we can be less then saved.

This would be whether all that call themselves Christian can be saved?(We are not saying that or asking)
What is being questioned in my posting is, Can someone call themselve a Christain and be less then what is pleasing to God? I trust they can because of the level of faith. We are not to judge salvation yet we are to discern the action of occurance. (example : are the actions of homosexuality less then Christian?)

Agreed.

jenniepepsi · Jul 16, 2009, 03:17 PM

I also want to point out that once you are saved, you cannot lose that salvation.

Tj3 · Jul 16, 2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

i also want to point out that once you are saved, you cannot lose that salvation.

Different topic - I agree that you cannot inadvertently l;ose your salvation, but you can subsequently choose to reject it.

Now you'll find out where ClassyT and I disagree ;)

galveston · Jul 16, 2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Different topic - I agree that you cannot inadvertently l;ose your salvation, but you can subsequently choose to reject it.

Now you'll find out where ClassyT and I disagree ;)

Yes. There are plenty of Scriptures that warn against falling away and denying the faith, so it is possible to start well and lose out in the end.

I can supply verses, if you want to see them.

s_cianci · Jul 16, 2009, 03:47 PM

I know it says in the Bible that being gay is a sin, but it always says there is no greater commandment than to love your neighbor as yourself and the love God the Father with everything we are.

Both of these statements are true. I'm not exactly sure what your real point is. But don't ever impute any of mans' sinfulness to God by saying he "gave us differences" or anything like that. God is not to blame and is not responsible for our sinfulness, whether it be sins of a sexual nature or whatever.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 16, 2009, 04:38 PM

All of us are sinners in some parts of our life.

Who stole a ink pen today, that is still theft, who had bad thoughts about that driver who cut us off.
Who perhaps had unpure thoughts about that young girl, or guy in that skimpy outfit.

We all are sinners, but need to first admit our sin.

N0help4u · Jul 16, 2009, 05:58 PM

Well with the discussion on less saved and you are saved or you are not and all...
What Jenni said is relevant because even though we may struggle with or sins and we may even backslide and come back people do tend to say stuff like they got saved,
They lost their salvation,
They came back to the Lord.
God isn't in heaven with a pencil and eraser erasing our name and rewriting it every time we mess up. So even when we have come to Christ and we haven't gotten rid of our old ways God isn't using that eraser either.

jenniepepsi · Jul 16, 2009, 06:12 PM

Grr got to spread the rep nohelp :(

But finally someone gets what I was trying to say :P I didn't know how to explain it :) thanks hon!