[smoothy]

I am saying that you have no idea what it's like to be in our shoes. Do you know what it's like to have church leaders say you and all your friends are going to hell? Have politicians said that they don't think you deserve the same rights as everyone else? Have you ever been refused service at a hotel because your kind isn't welcome? Have you or any of your friends been the victim of a hate crime? Has anyone protested your loved one's funeral? My guess is no. I guess in fairness, terrorist attacks are the same as hate crimes, so I'll give you that one. I'm able to answer yes to all of those questions.

You cannot compare us to illegal immigrants. We are citizens of this country and should be afforded the rights of everyone else, whether or not they like us. Once upon a time, non-whites were unable to vote. The majority of the voting public supported this law, but did that make it right? NO!!! The fact is, there is no good reason to discriminate against us and just sitting back and allowing it to happen will not stand.

I would agrue that it's not the flamboyant who bring problems on our community, it is the straight d-bags who think our relationships and our lives are less worthy than theirs. Don't try to pin us with the blame when it is people like YOU who cause our problems.

Read what I said about the illegals... they have no legal right to be here yet have the nerve to stage public protests demanding they be not only absolved of their crime but to be made a citizen something they do NOT have the right to... That is what pisses off most Americans and has lost them much sympathy in many areas. The comparison there is with Gay pride parades is that they serve no purpose but piss off most of the population. Result is public sympathy is lost by both parties.

As far as your rights... you already have the same rights I have. You don't deserve any more rights than that. As far as your right to marriage... we are going to have to agree to disagree on that point. I firmly believe marriage is between a man and a woman.. period, nothing, and nobody will sway my decision on that.

And contrary to what you think it is the Flamboyant gays that the general public find disgusting and vile. Even by those who generally don't care what gays do together. They are the ones who people see the most... so they are the ones who polarize most of the public against them. And incidentally the gay friends I have make those comments... not just me.

[americangayboy]

Pride festivals are a celebration of our culture, not an attempt to piss people off. No, I do not have the same rights as you... you have the right to marry the person you love while I do not. You, as an 18 year old, would not be jailed for having sex with your 16 year old partner, I would. You do not have to worry about traveling through rural America, I do. You are not refused service at hotels, I am. I'm not looking for special rights, I'm looking for equal rights and fair protection from persecution.

Your stance on marriage is soooooo unfair. Why should marriage be only between a man and a woman? Because G-d said so? You should know as well as anyone that American law is not based solely on religious beliefs. There simply is no secular reason to abolish same-sex marriage. Furthermore, even if we did base law on religion, the Bible (I assume you're Christian because the majority of Americans are Christian) is not as clear on homosexuality as the Christian-right would have you believe. Almost every reference to homosexuality is in the Old-Testament and it is not the focus of any chapter. Aside from religion, do you have a valid reason to oppress our community? No, you don't, because there isn't one. Scientists have found that it is a naturally occurring variation of sexual behavior and the mental health community agrees that it is not behaviorally maladaptive. We allow single parent households, so the "children are best raised by a man and a woman" argument is unfair. So tell me, what is your reasoning behind wanting to prevent me from living a happy life?

Just to be clear, I know that people hate flamboyantly gay men, but they also hate masculine gay men, butch lesbians, femme lesbians and transgendered persons. We aren't the only ones either; people hate racial and religious minorities and commit horrid crimes against them too. You seem to think it's OK to persecute people based on innate trait, but it's not OK.

Our community was being discriminated against long before the gay rights movement started. If you read up on queer history, the Stonewall riot was a reaction to unjust persecution of gays in NYC. We finally had enough bs and fought back.

Finally, I doubt you have any gay friends; especially if they agree with the garbage you are spewing on here. I just hate it when people try to legitimize their arguments by claiming to be friends with people who are affected by the problem. I know some black people, does that mean I'm an expert on crime and poverty in urban centers? I know some Mexicans too, so I guess my opinions on immigration reform are far better than yours. Do you see how foolish that is? I studied queer history in college, I live in the community, I continue to study queer culture, I am far more capable of debating this topic than someone who (dubiously) has gay friends who (doubtfully) agree with him.

[templelane]

^^ I have to spread the rep. But that was brilliant. I'm getting my friends to read it. Best post yet.

[smoothy]

If you think gay pride is anything but something that pisses off the general public you are seriously deluding yourself. Few people outside the gay community have anything positive to say or think about that. They are disgusting and vulgar displays of ignorance. So pretend to believe as you do and eventually you will have the majority of the population marching the gays as well as the Mexicans to the border and tossing them out. Which is the opposite of what you really want to happen. Offend our sensibilities, values, push us and we push back. You are seriously out of touch with how anybody but you views this topic.


Marriage is and always has been between a man and a woman. Not between a man and a sheep, two men, two woman or a woman and a dog... Plain and simple. Any change in that desecrates the institution of marriage. And incidentally I think divorce is far too simple and easy even for heterosexual couples. And in certain cases to easy to get married in a drunken stupor.

You want to live with your male friend... fine.. I have no problems with that... but marriage is off limits... because you have to be a man and a woman to marry.

And American law as well as most law DOES have basis in religious morals and values... and I know that just bugs the hell out of the liberals. But that's how it is.

And before you cry discrimination that's a cop out. Every group in history has been discriminated upon by some other group... dwelling on that and crying about it only shows weakness. I won't get into a certain group who bellyaches about something that happened generations ago when they fail to take advantage of the educations they are offered today and then cry because they can't get high paying jobs as high school dropouts that barely speak english even though they were born and raised here.

The fact of life is you will not be liked by everybody... thats life, contrary to what crap they tell you in public schools these days the world does NOT revolve around you, and as individual very few people are special to anyone but their parents. You fit into society, you stop bellyaching about everyone else because you can't have your way and do the best with what you have. Because ultimately you are responsible for your life. Not everyone else. That's a hell of a shock to most kids that graduated or dropped out of school in the last 2 decades thinking they were something special after hearing it so many times.

And really.. what state in the country will prosecute you for gay sex in private? As an 18 year old you can and would be prosecuted for statutory rape with a 16 year old of the opposite sex, and it happens all the time, and not just what makes the news.

And just who makes you the expert with who I know and who I don't with your narrow minded militant ideas... I'll wager you have not yet reached 25 you are the product of public schools and possible even still live at home with your parents. Your argument are of someone who has not spent much time in the real world. And your attitudes are exactly what polarizes most of the public against the gay community. Hell after listening to you I'd be picketing with the religious right against gay issues even though I don't agree with them on almost everything.

Pretend to play the poor picked on type and you aren't going to get far in life.

[americangayboy]

My city has a queer population around 12,000 people, but the gay pride fest has an estimated 115,000 attendees... so not only does it not offend a lot of people, but at least a handful of straights actually enjoy attending the festival! I'm not sure how it is a display of ignorance, but you've proven that reason isn't your strong suite, so whatever. However, I will counter your statementby saying that it is the anti-GLBT populace that is ignorant. I can back that up, too! You people claim that same-sex couples are unfit to parent, but a recent study (can't remember where I read it... google it) suggests that same-sex couples may actually rear more successful children than "traditional" families. How about that! It seems that it is the socio-economic status of the parents that predicts the child's success, not the parents' gender.

I'm sure you're aware that citizens don't get deported, so I'm not worried about being kicked out of the country with those oh-so-awful Mexicans who would never really be kicked out anyway because it would cripple our economy. You conservatives are such fear mongers! I still don't understand how immigration reform and the gay rights movement intersect.

Good job answering how you justify banning same-sex marriage with secular reasoning. Very eloquent... reminds me of that song "Sound of Silence".

[smoothy]

Try getting an education... a real one. Maybe you will grasp the concept of the fact you are not the center of the universe,

Your parents have little to do with things... Drop out of high school, speak gutter trash to the exclusion of coheierant english, and dress like a hood you will not get far. I know quite a few people born poor that were quite successful in life. And not just white people before you throw that up as well. Yeah I know that's not what they teach in school these days but then little they teach has any resemblance to a proper education and as a result it shows with graduates. California is a laughingstock to most of the world and not just the rest of the USA.

Think about this you reap what you sow... in other words you deserve what you get. Offend most of the public then you deserve whatever they dish out in return. I am far less sympathetic to the gay cause after hearing people like you ranting.

Good luck talking to yourself... I decided to delete the rest I originally typed because arguing with such a self righteous person is an exercise in futility, as well as being completely out of place on this site, and I will not be a part of that.

[americangayboy]

I have a real education.

People's parents have a lot to do with everything. They are the ones responsible for raising us. The point of that example was that socio-economic status trumps almost any factor in predicting a child's success; that includes race, religion, gender, etc.

It seems to be you who is ranting incoherently, sir. Why are you attacking California? If it was an attempt to attack my home, sorry, I'm from the Midwest (born and raised on a poultry farm). I've only been to California once in my entire life and the only other place I've lived is rural Colorado.

What would you have schools teach? That poverty is a choice? That diversity is scary?

I studied psychology as an undergraduate and learned all about the use of empirical data. Most everything that I've said is based on research. How can you argue with teaching scientific evidence? You, on the other hand, have based your opinions on anecdotal evidence. That just doesn't cut it. So your particular circle of friends is homophobic, that is hardly indicative of national trends. Younger generations are less homophobic that older generations, and the next generation will be even less spiteful.