[logan176]

I knew the top of my chimney had some loose bricks when I bought the house 2 years ago. However, 3 days ago an entire brick fell off the top and took a chunk of shingle with it! I have 2 masons coming to give me an estimate on Sunday. I've been told by a few people that even though it only looks like the top 3 rows of brick need fixing, masons often need to go down further to properly complete the job.

The chimney is 50 years old and I have a steep roof. Can you guys give me an idea what this job may cost? Thanks.

[KISS]

I did exactly that job on about the same age house a few years ago. It takes at least 3 visits.

1. take off and re-lay the brick and create the sloped top.
A good day's work. For me it was no ladder, no scaffold, no bucket truck and chimney was on the side of the house.

2. Etch and clean the brick and top.

3. Wait at least a week or longer and seal the cap.

4. Install chimney cap while your at it.

It was my first attempt at brick-laying. Neighbor was a retired bricklayer and had the tools and he helped me from the ground.

Sounds expensive. I also did not have to use a hammer drill or any other tools but a chisel and hammer to remove the brick.

[21boat]

Hi logan, you didn't give the size of the chimney here.

Basically it's a $450.00 +job If it's a 16x16 chimney and on the side of the house with easy scaffolding. Depends on the set up to get to it.( tarp roof cover so mortar doesn't stain the shingles)

You should have a flue in it. You are in the borderline where flues weren't always used. The top flue could be flaked and shot. The flue is always 2 foot in length. It takes 9 courses on brick to cover 24" If there is no flue then the heat plant stack will have to be pulled to clean out fallen debris. I pull it first so debris won't bounce into the actual heat plant.

I use the brick handle method to test the courses of brick. If it can be bumped loose it not acceptable for me.

I started my business repairing old chimneys. You will appreciate this. ALL chimneys lean in the same direction no matter where the house sits. It's the years of the wind and weather coming at it in the same direction.

Get back to me with the size and the prices you get. Also I don't know if this is on a fireplace or a heat plant chimneys. Ask about chimney sweeping it while they are up there. This is a service I provided also for the customer. If it's a fireplace or wood stove and I see if its bad then I show them and do it.

Also if it's a fireplace or wood stove chimney how's the draft? All chimneys should be min. 2" above any object 10 foot in radius.

You may want to think of asking how much different the mortar will look. That can be minimized by 'Custom Color mix" It's a company that has standard mortar mixes to 'gray" the mortar more to match. That can also be done by using Keystone light mortar mix and strike it when it has set up more after laying up the brick.

Signed 21 Boat

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[logan176]

The chimney's outside dimensions are 17"x21". The chimney is not attached to a fireplace. The only thing using the chimney is the gas powered hot water heater. It looks like there is a orange, clay-looking oval that sticks out the top of the chimney. I'll get back to you guys with the estimates I get tomorrow. Thanks.

[logan176]

Okay, 2 guys came over today and gave me quotes.

Guy 1: $850
He said this is his flat rate. He would take off the top 2 courses of brick and repoint the mortar above the roofline. He also said if I had a chimney cap he would screw it in for me. He was stressing/justifying the price by saying he brings 2 guys and the scaffolding takes a while to load into the truck and actually assemble.

Guy 2: $700
He said his rates usually start at $1100, but this is a small job and would take less than a day. He will take down 5 courses of bricks and repoint where necessary above the roofline. He did say that the scaffolding assembly and take down will probably take as long as the job, but he didn't make a big deal of it. He will also put a concrete chimney cap above the bricks (I believe he called it a bluestone concrete cap).

I still have more masons that will stop by to give me estimates and will be checking references. But it seems like even if the prices were the same, guy 2 is giving me more for my money. What do you think?

[21boat]

First guy out of sink here.

Guy two is on the mark more.

( I wish I could bet $1,000.00 for a small repair for a half a day works).

2nd guy could get that done in 3 to 4 hrs. load up scaffolding set it up one mixes mud while one tears off and preps. An hour or so to lay and put wash on uncover roof clean up roof etc..

It's the luck of the draw here. I line up the small jobs back to back on chimney repairs and try to bid it to get a 2 fer in one day. Simply because I make more and can charge less and fill the day. I pay my guys for the day no matter what.

Is there anybody in the neighborhood there that needs some pointing or a lose brick or two. That could go in your favor for a slight price brake.

Get back on the other prices. $700.00 is not bad if it was a full day 2 guys and setup tear down and mortar, and that's basically what he bidding here. I'm for the contractor and the customer here. Did you get any references?

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[logan176]

I didn't ask for references yet. I have a few more people coming to give me estimates. Once I choose a mason then I'll be asking for references and addresses to I can checkout local jobs. I'll also be asking so see insurance papers for everyone that sets foot on my property. I told both guys that I was gathering other estimates so they knew I was being upfront with them.

[21boat]

I always like an upfront customer. I'm the same way with the customer's. I offer right on the get go references and ask them do the want the good ones first or the bad ones. I remind them there is many Bad customers out there as well as contractors. I also show them my county contractors Lic but do remind them that doesn't prove I'm going to do a good job... The door swings both ways. I also offer to them my Contractors insurance certificate.

After that I seem to have a better re pore and get many of the jobs I look at. I'm usually there from a reference on the get go. When in the construction Business as long as I have been 80% of the work is from references.

So do the good Pro Active method here and your chances will greatly increase to find a good contractor for the price. Lowest is not always the best. Balance that with the ref. Also Logan ask how do the charge if more brick are loose then you or they expected. Have that on contract. I put it on no matter what and the actual hourly rates for the extra time to have everything up front.

Greatly eliminates ( bid it low and kill them on extras) that's how a court battle can in-sue.

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[logan176]

Yeah... um... I just got the quote from guy #3 and he wants to bend me over for $2000. That's $1875 to remove 14 courses of bricks and $125 for a stainless steel cap! Either this guy didn't tell me about the free stripper that's included or he thinks I'm an @$$.

SO... this is now a DIY thread. I looked into renting the scaffolding and it will cost me $125 for the WEEK! I'm going to reuse as many of the bricks as I can. Instead of putting a concrete crown, I'm going to try and put a slab of bluestone as the crown. So here are the questions:

1. Is there any special type of mortar I need?

2. I was told my the top of my flue has a small crack in it. I'll be checking it myself on Friday. Where can I buy the topmost piece of clay flue that is 8"x8"? About how much should it cost?

3. I want to cut a 9"x9" hole in the bluestone so the flue will stick up through it. Then I'll attach the stainless steel cap to the flue. How do I cut the hole in my bluestone slab so I can use it as the crown? If I don't have the tools, will the brickyard I buy the slab from be able to cut the hole for me?

4. Are there any pearls of wisdom I should be aware of?

Thanks... Logan

[KISS]

1. Yes. (I'd have to come back to this question)

2. The brickyard can even cut it for you, but you have to buy (I think it's a 2' section) Guess $25

3. Brickyard probably won't cut that kind of hole. Drill holes in the corners, abrasive hole saw the radius of the clay pipe to prevent stress cracks.

Cement blade on a circular saw and finish with an Abrasive/diamond blade on a jigsaw.

Leave room for expansion.

Laying brick requires the right consistancy. Mix in small batches. Minimum tools: level, trowel and pointing tool.

Remember to etch and to prevent mortar from falling on the roof and driveway below.

[21boat]

Hi logan. Can walk you through this. If you Can get a bag of Keystone light mortar. Also get 200lb of masonry sand. Where I live the brick/masonry supply house has it. They may only sell Lehigh masonry mortar. If it's a straight bag of Portland then you will need a bag of Lime for that. The flue liner will be there also. You have an old fashion oval that comes in 6" and 8" which are considered a crock and is 2' in length. You may have to cut that in length. The last flue there may have been cut. A carborundum blade in a circ saw will do it. Where a good mask and safety's. The dust is considered hazardous "silica"

The mix for the 72 lb mortar is 200lb of sand to a bag or 100 lb sand to half a bag mortar which is what you will mix just because you don't have a mixer and wheelbarrow is small. Dry mix batch first always before adding water. The mix should be runny enough to get on trowel and snap it and it stick to the trowel at about 2"+ and hold.

I'm not sure why you need a cap for the flue even though it was mentioned here earlier. Its considered a spark arrestor and personally I have been on chimney fires that the arrestor just melts and didn't do much. It can work but only if there is no wind. If there is wind then a spark hits the metal top and bounces out the side and lands on the roof quicker. Its goo for squirrels and birds/bats not to live in the chimney. I used a Galv wire and bend it over the flue and and on it sides. This gives the chimney a better look instead of the Chinese look.


The brick may need to be slightly wet to relay if it sucks out the water in the mortar to quick. So explain more on this blue stone. A diamond blade on a circ saw will cut it, if you do that it will also cut the flue if needed. Blade at box stores. The masonry supply won't cut it simply because us masons have that saw on the job truck for the jobs.

The only draw back here on the stone is its not sloped away from the flue like a reg masonry "wash" that can be hand troweled to slope.

Don't get the mortar at the big box already mixed with sand its Crap!! Get the real McCoy at the supply house

I just posted and saw kiss. Standard Mortar is fine for that chimney. It doesn't need refractory cement to set flue. Unless you have a screwed up code there and they are tied into the kickback from the refractory cement.

[logan176]

Remember to etch and to prevent mortar from falling on the roof and driveway below.

What do you mean by etch?

BTW, 21 boat I was thinking about using the bluestone as the crown so it would hold up better than the cement. But I think the bluestone route is going to be too much of a pain, not to mention the slope issue. The stainless steel cap is just so rain doesn't get down the flue. I had a problem with rust/pitting where the exhaust from my hot water heater connects with the flue.

[KISS]

See "Removing mortar stains"

Cleaning masonry surfaces and muriatic acid from the Natural Handyman home repair and do it yourself website

And

Acid Etching Tips

When you do the repair, you'll get mortar on the bricks and not just between them. You have to etch it off. This can be done as soon as the cement is dry enough. You'll be using the solution on the brick, not the mortar in this case.

Etching is also required when painting a surface. Dry time in this case is 30 days. So, you should etch again at 30 days and then put a concrete sealer on the cap that you made with cement. It's imperative that you seal the cap.

You should also etch the cement in the joints too.

[21boat]

You should also etch the cement in the joints too.

Sorry Kiss that's a no no hear. The acid will react differently to the new mortar and differently to the old. Logan can just use the sponge way after the mortar cures for a day or so and control the acid to stay Off the new mortar. Get his rented scaffolding back.


Watch the acid use on the bricks. There are two BASIC products here I use for acid washing the brick. One is the old basic muriatic acid and ShureKleen. Shur is used for brick that have a lot of iron in it. Mur acid can cause rust later from the iron in the bricks.

Also if you get acid on the joints you can "burn" the joints and turn the mortar pure white in the burn spots. The best way to clean mortar off fresh laid brick is you acid gloves and sponge that has wide ends something like this but with more density. They have yellow ones that work well or whatever color. The width and density is needed.Sponge, DuPont Cellulose, Medium - Cleaning Supplies - Equipment & Supplies - Carolina Biological Supply Company
Use the sponge to clean off brick and fizzle the smeared mortar and dust off. Use a wooden paddle to scrap the tough spots off and re apply acid to work that back on forth.

[KISS]

I'm glad you clarified it, but that's what I was trying to say:

Etch the cap, brick and joints after 30 days.

And...

You should only etch the brick to get the mortar off on the 3 or 4 courses on the initial clean. No doubt you'll also get some mortar on the good brick. That you can etch directly. I like your idea of using a diluted strength for the initial clean. Water works somewhat and so does a wire brush.

[21boat]

If the cap is all mortar never acid wash that. The basic rule of thumb is try not to acid wash any mortar. It weakens the tooled struck joint. Its like when salt eats off the top of a concrete walk and when that tooled hard finish goes the rest goes quick.

Sorry Kiss a wire brush should never be used with any masonry acid That's why I mentioned a wooden scraper. Muriatic acid will eat metal and re act with the acid stain brick and or drip black re acting steel on mortar joint. The wire brush will also damage and scratch the face of the brick.

You don't need a 30 day clean up at all. Do it the day after you lay and use sponge. 30 days is done on our commercial big brick jobs. All houses are done with a sponge or a total diluted acid wash down with knowing about acid residue etching glass etc. . There are to many windows/old paint/etc to react with the acid.

No acid washing of any kind needs done at all before any bricks are laid. A wash down is After the brick laying is done.

The 3 to one acid is used for a total wash down and here is not the place.

[KISS]

Well, this changes how to do a chimney crown.

Chimney Crown Repairs

It makes sense though.

This would give you the aesthetically pleasing appearance that you desire. Reresh he above website when the "interference" happens and the "interference" will go away.

[KISS]

This is an interesting site:

Chimney Crown Repairs

Reminds me to be careful with having the mortar/cement touch your hands. I use disposable Latex gloves for just about everything. I buy them from Oak Gloves Medical Examination Latex and Non Latex Gloves. Look under the ones for working on cars. You don't need the stirile kind.

[KISS]

21boat:

No one in our neighborhood (50 YO houses) has precast crowns. I'm not sure it was mixed any differently either. No overhang existed.

The overhang caused by using a pre-cast crown is a great idea. It's actually going to be less of a problem because then chimney is lined for the hot water heater only. A stainless steel cap was installed, I needed to remove a course of brick, so that could be installed properly.

The overhang will cause any rain or condensation to not run directly down the brick.

The retired bricklayer next door didn't mix it any differently. He didn't recommend flashing (note non-aluminum) between the crown and the flue. I did look up the slope.

I did try to keep a gap between the mortar and the chimney which I did seal with a roofing caulk.

He did recommend sealing the top with black asphalt, but that to me way way too ugly. So I used a clear concrete sealer after etching. It didn't make sense not to etch before applying sealer.

So, evidently, I used the wrong material/mix for the cap. I did seal which I thought was a good idea.

Wire brushes:

They come in all sorts of varieties, from stiff steel wire to brass bristle. Your right, I may have not used them. I may have used a small plastic brush.

The one thing I would not have thought of was to keep the mortar from falling onto the driveway below.

This discussion is starting to get to be fun.

[21boat]

Hi kiss. Actually in the trades we never put any caulk between the flue and the mortared 'Wash" What we did do is lay a wet burlap over the wash to stop shrink cracks in the mortar "sloped Washed"

Never use roof pitch on a chimney wash. Aside from it looking ugly if that top gets to hot the tar can in time melt and drip or it Just gets dried out so quick being in direct sunlight and the sub straight is mortar. Not like and asphalt roof or a below grade pitch.

Logan do some roof cover also from mortar droppings

I can buy precast crowns/caps here but they are for block chimneys that are either 16x16 or 16x20 and that has a 2" overhang on it. The precast is mainly for the wash part and not for any drip part. Since the precast is flat underneath there is water cohesion that actually gets the very top of the chimney a bit wetter because the flat underneath hasn't a drip grove.

The science here is just like old window sills that has a kerf cut under the sill to the water dripping down the face of the sill and under it the kerf stops that from running into into the house where sill meets it. The concrete roofs we Pour In Puerto Rico gets treated the same way. When we form the overhangs we lay in a 3/4" strip to leave a grove so our concrete roof "caps" doesn't let the water run back into the building.

A precast cap is solely for the wash end and not for any protection of the brick underneath it. Most all chimneys fail because of the mortared 'Wash" cracks lets water in the head of the chimney and freezes thaws and cracks mortar joints and loosens bricks in time.