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Athos · Apr 23, 2021, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by waltero

Why are you trying to drag me into your little spat with JL. I'm staying out of it.

You asked me why I don't believe in hell. I answered and asked you the same question. You evaded the question several times and now your evasion is "a spat with Jl".

Didn't mean anything other than I find most people with this sort of frustration have come from a Catholic School.

Are you referring to your frustration? I didn't think you came from a Catholic school. I could be wrong. Do Catholics have a frustration you encountered?

jlisenbe · Apr 23, 2021, 04:46 AM

Nice try, but weak. You just ain't got it.

Well shucks. It's a less entertaining site when you lose your DV persona.

waltero · Apr 24, 2021, 10:09 PM

why don't you say exactly what it is?

If you really want me too- You should first understand; "God’s wrath does not contradict His love.
Denial of God’s just punishment of sin will only ensure that one experiences it.

Would anybody choose hell rather than heaven? Yes. Why? Pride.

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 04:49 AM

Denial of God’s just punishment of sin will only ensure that one experiences it.

Sad but true.

waltero · Apr 25, 2021, 06:10 AM

Many people have a relationship with God that is based on something you might not understand.
A necessity that most people don't want to Understand or Accept.

Athos · Apr 25, 2021, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by waltero

If you really want me too- You should first understand; "God’s wrath does not contradict His love.

The question was about hell, not God's wrath (although the two can be connected which I assume is your point without actually saying so).

Denial of God’s just punishment of sin will only ensure that one experiences it.

Nonsense.

Would anybody choose hell rather than heaven? Yes. Why? Pride.

Stop skating around the question. It's not about choosing hell, it's about God sending people to hell who don't believe in Jesus. Ask yourself "Why am I evading the question?"

Many people have a relationship with God that is based on something you might not understand.
A necessity that most people don't want to Understand or Accept.

"Most people" don't want to understand? Most people? But you are one of the privileged few? I would ask you to explain yourself but I know you won't.

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 11:32 AM

More scripture to ponder.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.” 40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?” 41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;

This also comes from the Apostle's Creed which Wondergirl has agreed is correct. "The third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;from thence he shall come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.

Now of course there are those here who will look at text after text after text after text after text after text and come to the foolish conclusion that it's all just "cherry picking", "misrepresentation", or "Bible Bingo".

Wondergirl · Apr 25, 2021, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

from thence he shall come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.

No mention of hell.

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 11:51 AM

No mention of hell.

Well, Jesus mentioned hell many, many times, most notably in Matthew 25, and you have chosen to ignore His views since they don't agree with yours, so I don't really know what it would take to convince you. I guess if Obama came out and agreed with the Mt. 25 passage, then maybe you would take his word for it.

Wondergirl · Apr 25, 2021, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well, Jesus mentioned hell many, many times

Why isn't hell mentioned in the Apostles Creed?

Athos has already tried to school you on Jesus' use of the word "hell". Were you busy sending Facebook messages to Suzy again? You really, really want people you hate to burn forever, doncha!

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 01:31 PM

Anyone who thinks Jesus was referring to the garbage dump as being eternal is a complete loon. Your remaining comments are sixth grade level drivel from someone who cannot defend her position or even articulate what it is.

I will simply add again, for the five hundredth time, that I am simply posting the words of Christ. You seem to have no interest in them. You never quote Him. In reply, all we get is ridiculous nonsense about facebooking and wanting people to burn in hell. You know what I want? I want you to act like a grown up and give a reasoned response to those scriptures, but I have no hope for that at all.

talaniman · Apr 25, 2021, 02:03 PM

Nobody here is willing to play by your rules...bummer!

Wondergirl · Apr 25, 2021, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You know what I want? I want you to act like a grown up and give a reasoned response to those scriptures, but I have no hope for that at all.

Ah, so you want ME to burn in hell too.

(You just don't get it about the word "hell" as it is found in the Bible, do you.)

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 02:22 PM

No.

Yes.

Athos · Apr 25, 2021, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Anyone who thinks Jesus was referring to the garbage dump as being eternal is a complete loon. Your remaining comments are sixth grade level drivel from someone who cannot defend her position or even articulate what it is.

And in this corner, we have the holy roller who whines above about others insulting and saying nasty things. Heal thyself, o great whiner!

Below is even better. Text after text after text after text and this is what Jl comes up with? But the Bible doesn't contradict itself, he says. What is this, chopped liver?

“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person.

Right after that from Holy Joe, this:

from thence he shall come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.

Does he or doesn't he? Only Joe knows for sure.

waltero · Apr 25, 2021, 03:14 PM

Would anybody choose hell rather than heaven? Yes. Why? Pride.
Stop skating around the question. It's not about choosing hell, it's about God sending people to hell who don't believe in Jesus. Ask yourself "Why am I evading the question?"

God sending people to hell

Who said that?
That has never been my concern (question). I don't know anything about that.
Is there a need for Hell...This would be what's in question?

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 04:15 PM

And in this corner, we have the holy roller who whines above about others insulting and saying nasty things. Heal thyself, o great whiner!

And here we have the guy who accuses others of calling names. Why don't you post something of substance? Do you have anything?

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 04:25 PM

“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person.

Right after that from Holy Joe, this:

from thence he shall come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.

Oh good grief. I just saw your "substance".

It's very simple. In the first quote, Jesus is speaking in the present tense of his time on earth. He did not come then for judgement but rather for salvation. The second speaks of the coming day of judgement when He will judge.

In a gross truncation of a quote which reminds me of your Aquinas debacle, you intentionally misrepresented what He said. The entire quote very nicely answers your question. It is startling that you did not, I suppose, bother to read it for yourself.

"47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. (present tense JL)

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. (future tense JL)"

"for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words" That would tragically seem to be you, Athos.

If you want to be a deceiver, you must learn to do a much better job.

Athos · Apr 25, 2021, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And here we have the guy who accuses others of calling names.

Yeah, that's me. Here's you:

Anyone who thinks Jesus was referring to the garbage dump as being eternal is a complete loon. Your remaining comments are sixth grade level drivel from someone who cannot defend her position or even articulate what it is.

Complete loon? Sixth grade drivel? Not even articulate? And you accuse others?

Here's a fitting Bible verse for you: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

reminds me of your Aquinas debacle

Love it when you bring this up. I'm immediately reminded how your twisted misinterpretation of the Bible has you claiming Jesus sends to hell for eternal torture anybody that never heard of him. Doesn't get any sicker or more evil than that.

More below:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's very simple. In the first quote, Jesus is speaking in the present tense of his time on earth. He did not come then for judgement but rather for salvation. The second speaks of the coming day of judgement when He will judge.

For a guy who insists on being literal, I see that you provide context when it suits you. Will you now allow others to do the same?

If you want to be a deceiver, you must learn to do a much better job.

I'm learning by watching you. You are a terrific teacher.

jlisenbe · Apr 25, 2021, 05:21 PM

Complete loon? Sixth grade drivel? Not even articulate? And you accuse others?

You have a partial point. I did not connect a name with "complete loon", so that's pretty iffy. As to the others, they refer to someone's actions rather than calling names.

For a guy who insists on being literal, I see that you provide context when it suits you. Will you now allow others to do the same?

Please do. You were, however, being deceptive in your mishandling of the text. If not, then explain why you provided the first half of the passage but not the second which clearly showed your point to be senseless. We earnestly await your explanation/admission. Perhaps it was simply a mistake?

I'm learning by watching you. You are a terrific teacher.

When you appear to be deceptive, I point it out and give you an opportunity to explain. You rarely do so since you are simply being deceptive for which there is no explanation needed, but rather a simple admission. If I have, in your view, been deceptive, then by all means point it out. You never do, but I am offering you the chance. Just be specific. "Oh, you're deceptive!" demonstrates nothing.