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Dakar11 · May 7, 2009, 04:26 PM

I live in Alberta, Canada and I got a car from a seller in Ontario, then I sent a $1000 deposit and he sold the car to someone else but never returned money to me.

I sent it with western union (bad idea, I know now) but my local police was actually helpful. They got his IP from Google (since gmail hides it) then got a warrant for his ISP and got his location, name, address etc.

This is where it gets tricky..

This person lives in one city, I sent the money (fake name/address) to another city and money was picked up in a third city (all within 100 miles).

Police in sellers city talked to him but then told me they can't do anything because crime occurred in the city where money was picked up, police there said since seller doesn't live there they can't do anything..

I know that white collar crimes (especially in Canada) rank very low when it comes to priority but who has jurisdiction here?

tickle · May 7, 2009, 04:36 PM

From what you say, you might just forget about the money you lost. You bought a car sight-unseen and sent money to someone you didn't know. You will never track them down and don't blame the police because they didn't monitor the transaction.

There is nothing wrong with sending money via Western Union; you keep your receipt with the recipient's name on it.

You have been scammed Dakar.

Tick

Dakar11 · May 7, 2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

From what you say, you might just forget about the money you lost. You bought a car sight-unseen and sent money to someone you didnt know. You will never track them down and dont blame the police because they didnt monitor the transaction.

There is nothing wrong with sending money via Western Union; you keep your receipt with the recipient's name on it.

You have been scammed Dakar.

tick

My local PD DID find this guy, PD in his town TALKED to him.. so I know who it is but issue is what PD (which one) should do something about it?

Sunflowers · May 7, 2009, 06:01 PM

I don't live in Canada and don't know the laws there but I would say the police where the money was picked up should do something. Just guessing.

Dakar11 · May 7, 2009, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sunflowers

I don't live in Canada and don't know the laws there but I would say the police where the money was picked up should do something. Just guessing.

All three PDs keep pointing fingers at each other.. so I figured it can't hurt to ask here.

Just to clarify..

1st PD: city where this person LIVES
2nd PD: city where I SENT the money to
3rd PD: city where money was picked up (about 80miles from the city I sent it to)

JudyKayTee · May 8, 2009, 05:06 AM

Please don't guess on the legal board -

Jurisdiction is where the crime (fraud) occurred. That Police Department files the charges (if they are so inclined).

I say you retain an Attorney to make the argument that the fraud occurred where OP lives - that's where the money order originated, that's where the fraud occurred.

Dakar11 · May 8, 2009, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Please don't guess on the legal board -

Jurisdiction is where the crime (fraud) occurred. That Police Department files the charges (if they are so inclined).

I say you retain an Attorney to make the argument that the fraud occurred where OP lives - that's where the money order originated, that's where the fraud occurred.

Local PD where the seller lives claims that fraud did not happen there because money was picked up in a different city almost 80 miles away. They basically told me fraud occurred at the moment money was picked up, not when the seller talked to me and asked me to send a deposit.

Getting an attorney isn't really worth it, it's a $1000 and an attorney will cost me more

JudyKayTee · May 8, 2009, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar11

Local PD where the seller lives claims that fraud did not happen there because money was picked up in a different city almost 80 miles away. They basically told me fraud occurred at the moment money was picked up, not when the seller talked to me and asked me to send a deposit.

Getting an attorney isn't really worth it, it's a $1000 and an attorney will cost me more

Quite frankly I don't know why you asked which City has jurisdiction if you've talked to the Police and already have your answer. If the local Police will do nothing and you have to go to where the money was picked up, that's what you have to do and apparently what the Police have said.

I still believe you can make an argument - and keep in mind that the Police are not Attorneys - that fraud was committed where you live. That's where the "contract/agreement" was entered into. I guarantee the seller is going to make an argument (if you file where the money was picked up) that there is no jurisdiction there.

But if the Police won't charge where you live and you don't want to retain an Attorney to make that legal argument, then you have to do what they said and attempt to file charges in the City where the money was picked up.

Again - I don't know why you asked if you already knew - or thought you knew.

Dakar11 · May 8, 2009, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Quite frankly I don't know why you asked which City has jurisdiction if you've talked to the Police and already have your answer. If the local Police will do nothing and you have to go to where the money was picked up, that's what you have to do and apparently what the Police have said.

I still believe you can make an argument - and keep in mind that the Police are not Attorneys - that fraud was committed where you live. That's where the "contract/agreement" was entered into. I guarantee the seller is going to make an argument (if you file where the money was picked up) that there is no jurisdiction there.

But if the Police won't charge where you live and you don't want to retain an Attorney to make that legal argument, then you have to do what they said and attempt to file charges in the City where the money was picked up.

Again - I don't know why you asked if you already knew - or thought you knew.

I asked because all 3 PDs claim they have nothing to do with this, and they can't be all right. So I don't know the answer, I just know that they don't really want to do anything.. so before trying to get one of those 3 PDs to do something I figured I'll ask here which one I should go after..

Sunflowers · May 8, 2009, 08:05 AM

Dakar I have seen the police behave like this in my country too. An accident happens at an intersection that also happens to be the property line between a city and a township. Neither the city police or township police want to respond. No one wants to do their jobs anymore type thing. I think you have a right to insist that at least one of the police stations take a police report. If none of them wants to do that, it will probably be like dragging a man who is kicking and screaming to get them to do anything more. I agree that you should not have to hire an attorney since you are the victim, we live and learn... Do they have such things as small claims courts in Canada?

What does WU have to say about this, if anything? Did they get proper ID and signature from the pick-up?

excon · May 8, 2009, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar11

I asked because all 3 PDs claim they have nothing to do with this, and they can't be all right.

Hello D:

If somebody sold drugs in front of the doughnut store where the cops hang out, there MIGHT be an arrest...

But, if somebody is ripped off, it's not their job. No wonder more people than me hate cops.

excon

Dakar11 · May 8, 2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Sunflowers

Dakar I have seen the police behave like this in my country too. An accident happens at an intersection that also happens to be the property line between a city and a township. Neither the city police or township police want to respond. No one wants to do their jobs anymore type thing. I think you have a right to insist that at least one of the police stations take a police report. If none of them wants to do that, it will probably be like dragging a man who is kicking and screaming to get them to do anything more. I agree that you should not have to hire an attorney since you are the victim, we live and learn... Do they have such things as small claims courts in Canada?

What does WU have to say about this, if anything? Did they get proper ID and signature from the pick-up?

Small claims court do exist but I'd have to fly to the sellers city and do it there.

WU didn't do anything, they failed to ask for ID and just paid out the money even though I did NOT send it to be paid without ID.

I don't think that would matter because the guy gave me fake name/address..

Dakar11 · May 8, 2009, 10:25 AM

Just to add, WU says (and I can't really blame them) that they did their job, they were there just to send money. The agent who paid it out failed to get ID.

Cops just seem to think this is a civil matter..

JudyKayTee · May 8, 2009, 01:31 PM

WU is on the line here, too, if they were to check identification and did not. Maybe the seller had fake ID. Maybe he didn't. That's immaterial now.

I would make a claim with them - they have insurance.

tickle · May 8, 2009, 04:39 PM

Sunflower, I really do take exception to 'do they have such things as small claims court in Canada'. We have a Supreme Court, small claims courts, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (who are equivalent to your FBI). And major centers with millions of people in population. I have never seen any police department act strangely around an accident scene anywhere near where I live which is southeastern Ontario.

Either the OP is leaving information out, or this whole scenario is not what seems to be.

Where are you from and do you read newspapers ?

Tick

Sunflowers · May 8, 2009, 07:22 PM

I'm really sorry tickle. I never meant to offend anyone, though apparently you aren't the only one who takes exception to things I say. I will try to be more sensitive to others sensibilities in the future!

LEGALWIZARD · May 15, 2009, 03:18 AM

In order to be competent to hear a given matter, a court must have jurisdiction over the following:

1. the offence;
2. the offender; and
3. the geographical territory.

If the fraud is to be prosecuted as a summary conviction offence, the province will have jurisdiction; if the fraud is to be prosecuted as an indictable offense, then the "superior court of criminal jurisdiction" will have jurisdiction.

JudyKayTee · May 15, 2009, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by LEGALWIZARD

In order to be competent to hear a given matter, a court must have jurisdiction over the following:

1. the offence;
2. the offender; and
3. the geographical territory.

If the fraud is to be prosecuted as a summary conviction offence, the province will have jurisdiction; if the fraud is to be prosecuted as an indictable offense, then the "superior court of criminal jurisdiction" will have jurisdiction.

Which Province? There are two involved.

I realize this is cut and paste but it doesn't answer the question.

If it IS cut and paste the Board rules require that the source be posted and credited.