[arcura]

Today's Gospel lesson.
From the New Jerusalem Bible.
Luke 20: 27. Some Sadducees, those who argue that there is no resurrection, approached him and they put this question to him,
28. `Master, Moses prescribed for us, if a man's married brother dies childless, the man must marry the widow to raise up children for his brother.
29. Well then, there were seven brothers; the first, having married a wife, died childless.
30. The second
31. And then the third married the widow. And the same with all seven, they died leaving no children.
32. Finally the woman herself died.
33. Now, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be, since she had been married to all seven?"
34. Jesus replied, "The children of this world take wives and husbands,
35. But those who are judged worthy of a place in the other world and in the resurrection from the dead do not marry
36. Because they can no longer die, for they are the same as the angels, and being children of the resurrection they are children of God.
37. And Moses himself implies that the dead rise again, in the passage about the bush where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
38. Now he is God, not of the dead, but of the living; for to him everyone is alive."
:confused:Do you believe that those who pass this life are alive?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

[cogs]

no, because there would be no one to resurrect. Their life will be eternal in resurrection, because they will die no more. 'corruption must put on incorruption'.
god is the god of the living, because he makes us alive. If we are in sin, we're just as good as dead, because we don't know the giver of life (which I believe is what jesus means), and we cannot receive life.
so perhaps that's why they call judgement the second death, because that which was sin dies, and only that which is life remains.
we should be asking, 'are those which are alive(living) really alive(in jesus, eternally)?'.

[Tj3]

It depends upon what you mean by alive. Those who are in Christ have eternal life, but in that case it refers to us living on in fullness of life reconciled to God in heaven. These people are alive in Christ (spiritually alive), but dead in the flesh.

Those who die in their sins also continue to live on but receive eternal torment in the lake of fire. They are referred to as dead because they are not just dead in the flesh, but dead in their sins (spiritually dead).

We thus need to be careful with respect to the definitions that we use.

[arcura]

cogs.
Those that pass this life are not spiritually dead.
Note that Moses and Elijah appeared at Jesus transformation.
There bodies had died long before then.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[revdrgade]

I am sure that those who have left this world no longer live in the realm of time of this world.

Since I can't fully grasp eternity or infinity, I don't know how this plays out in relationship to us who are still alive in this temporal body.

[arcura]

revdrgade.
I do believe that our spirits live in God's time, eternally.
God is the God of the living not the dead.
Those who die in friendship to the Trinity God will eventually have reserrected "Glorified" bodies as Jesus had.
I don't know what kind of body those who die in conflict with God will have if any but I suspect that they will have one in which they will suffer.
It is said by scientists that the universe will bur itself our several trillion years from now.
That is indeed difficult to contemplate ot comprehend.
Very much so is forever or eternity which is much more that many times that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[MoonlitWaves]

Do you believe that those who pass this life are alive?

Absolutely! Be it in the continual presence of God (the saved) or not (the unsaved), they are alive!

There are differences of belief when it comes to this. Some believe that until the rapture those who are dead are, well, dead and waiting on the return of Jesus. I believe their confusion comes from the word "sleep" often used in the Bible when referring to the dead. Others, including me, believe the word sleep was merely a word used because the dead looked asleep. And the bodies of those who are dead are just that... dead. But there is definitely a separation of body and spirit. Though my body will one day pass away, my spirit will never perish. My body currently houses my spirit, but when this body is dead and gone my spirit will separate from it.

There is a separation of spirit and body. The body dies when and because the spirit is no longer in the body. James 2:6 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." and 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." and Philippians 1:23 & 24 "For I am in a srait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." And Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." From these verses it is obvious to me that the body dies when the soul/spirit leaves the body. Those who have passed on are still alive, and the reason is because their souls have left their bodies upon their bodies death.

We know from the story of Lazarus and the rich man that our soul does NOT sleep or rest until Jesus' coming, but rather goes to the current heaven or current hell until God places us in the place we will abide for eternity (new Jerusalum or the lake of fire). Luke 16:22 & 23 "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." Why should we assume those who have passed before us will sleep or rest or remain dead until the rapture? Why are they any different than Lazarus and the rich man? Or why should they be any different than the thief beside Jesus when Jesus was being crucified? That man believed Jesus was the Son of God and so Jesus said to him, Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

We also have Jesus Words to us. John 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." and John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

I believe that when we die our our soul departs from our body (James 2:6) and is immediately in the presence of God no matter whether you are saved or not. (Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." and 2 Corinthians 5:8). I believe they will immediately go into the presence of God because he says in Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess God." Those who never believed will go to His presence upon their death to see and know that He is God. Then He will put them in their place. Hell for the unsaved and Abraham's bosom, paradise, heaven, whatever you wish to call it, for the saved until Jesus' return (Lazurus and the rich man in Luke 16). Then Jesus will call upon the bodies of the saved of those who have died. Their bodies will be united with their souls where those bodies will be conformed into the likeness of the image of Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:21 & Romans 8:29). Then those who are alive will be called up and conformed as well. Once tribulation and the other happenings mentioned in Revelation happens our soul will go to the place where it will be for eternity. Those who are saved will live in the new heaven (new Jerusalem, Revelation 21:1-4). The unsaved along with the devil and his demons will be thrown into the lake of fire where they will dwell for all eternity (Revelation 20:10, 14 & 15).

[De Maria]

Today's Gospel lesson.
From the New Jerusalem Bible.
Luke 20: 27. Some Sadducees, those who argue that there is no resurrection, approached him and they put this question to him,
28. `Master, Moses prescribed for us, if a man's married brother dies childless, the man must marry the widow to raise up children for his brother.
29. Well then, there were seven brothers; the first, having married a wife, died childless.
30. The second
31. and then the third married the widow. And the same with all seven, they died leaving no children.
32. Finally the woman herself died.
33. Now, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be, since she had been married to all seven?"
34. Jesus replied, "The children of this world take wives and husbands,
35. but those who are judged worthy of a place in the other world and in the resurrection from the dead do not marry
36. because they can no longer die, for they are the same as the angels, and being children of the resurrection they are children of God.
37. And Moses himself implies that the dead rise again, in the passage about the bush where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
38. Now he is God, not of the dead, but of the living; for to him everyone is alive."
:confused:Do you believe that those who pass this life are alive?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Yes.

Look at the last words of the verse you quoted:

for to him everyone is alive.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[revdrgade]

revdrgade. I
Those who die in friendship to the Trinity God will eventually have reserrected "Glorified" bodies as Jesus had.
Fred

I agree with the "eventually" that you mention above. That "eventually" is according to our (people still on earth) straight-line temporal time.

But according to God's eternal time, those who died in Christ are already with Him... along with us. Thus God is the God of the living and death has no bonds on us.

I haven't a clue either about the "bodies" of those die without a quickened spirit.

[arcura]

MoonlitWaves,
Thanks. That says a lot.
Fred