[thehumanlynx]

I have a fan that I installed that was hard wired. Then I tried to make it function off an existing light switch, that controlled nothing.

The switch had the standard three wires (black, white, bare) that ended on the switch. Black and white connected to the switch and the bare sitting in the box. So I wired the fan box down to the switch and it looks like this.

The fan has a pull cord for the light and for the fan speed. I can't figure out what's going on but the fan will not come on. There is power going through the switch and the power goes to the fan box, but there is nothing happening.

Thanks for the help.

[hkstroud]

If the switch box has only 3 wires, black, white and bare, that wiring is a switch leg for a fixture somewhere. There is no neutral in the switch box. The wiring is not as shown in your pic, where the hot and neutral both come into the switch box, the hot is run through the switch and the uninterrupted neutral continuing to the fixture (note the gray line in the pic). The wiring is as in my drawing. The fixture may be a ceiling fixture as shown or it may be an outlet some where. My drawing is also how you would wire your fan using another switch.

[thehumanlynx]

The switch box started with the 3 wires running into it. (bare, black, white) The black connected to the bottom of the switch and the white connected to to the top and the bare just sat in the box.

I Ran another piece of romex down the wall to the box and made the connections to look like the picture in my first post.

I had previously checked all the outlets in my room and the switch did not affect any of them.

[thehumanlynx]

I guess I'm trying to see if I can use the existing switch and power source going to the switch to wire the new fan/light. Your drawing shows the power coming in to the fixture first. And that is not the set up I have currently.

I'm just a little confused at the moment.

Thanks for the help.

[hkstroud]

I have a fan that I installed that was hard wired.
Thanks for the help.

Could you explain.

[donf]

There is another way to wire this fixture, that is with power going to the switch first and then to the fixture.

You would have a Black going into the bottom of the switch, a black from the top of the switch would go to the overhead connection point. White, would bypass the switch and go directly to the overhead.

The connections would be the same. Black to Black (fan) and Blue (light). White to the White from the power source. This is your neutral return conductor.

[ceilingfanrepair]

Leave the switch connected as it originally was, since it controls something besides the fan. Maybe an outlet.

Add a second switch to that switch box.

Connect the fan back to what you originally had it hard wired to. The wire that you ran to the non-functioning switch, connect it to the new switch. At the fan, connect it as such: black from power source (hard wired) to white (labeled black) from the new switch. Black from the new switch to black from the fan. White from the fan to white from the power source.

Ceiling fan wiring - Ceiling Fans N More

[Tev]

If that switch controlled nothing and the neutral went to one side of it and the hot the other and you turned it on to check the outlets there should have been sparks. The white wire that was on the switch originally was almost certainly not neutral and could very well be a hot wire. I'm doubtful there was ever a neutral in the switch box. I have some questions that if answered may clear it up enough for someone to help you.

You say you have power going through the switch?

How did you determine that?

How much voltage do you have?

Did you try all the outlets ,top and bottom, in the room or just one at each location? Even though you may have two in one location maybe only one of them is on the switch

Could the switch control something outside of the room? (porch light, closet light, etc.)

Which room of the house is the switch in and what is it's location in the room? (next to closet door, above sink, etc.)

Where did you get power for the fan when it was working? I assume at the fan box, if so is it still there?

[thehumanlynx]

Thanks for all the help. I, hopefully, addressed each question you all asked below. Basically I'm trying to make that switch control the fan.

To hkstroud;
The fan was working when the power was pulled from a line that connects outlet to outlet.

DonF
If I read your response correctly you are saying to wire the fan like this. Click here. I did it like that using the diagram I linked and it wouldn't work.


CeilingFanRepair:
So is there no way to utilize the existing switch? I tested it before all over the room and could not find that it controlled anything. I would really like to use that switch if its possible.

Tev:
I just tested both wires with a voltage detector. I don't know how much voltage there is. I tried all the outlets months ago, I suppose I could wire it back how it was and try them all again. The switch is in a guest bedroom by the door. I believe it is the end of a series running to all the outlets, there is an outlet that is to the right and lower of the switch, I'm pretty sure the wires go from that outlet to the switch because there is no romex above in the attic. The fan power was connected off the line that powers the outlets on the other side of the room.

[thehumanlynx]

To all.

I just retested the outlets and it appears that I was incorrect in my recollection of what the switch controls.

The bottom outlet immediately to the right of the switch is controlled by the switch. (not the top outlet, just the bottom).

With that in mind, is there a way where I can make the switch control the fan and not that bottom outlet?

[ceilingfanrepair]

You can use the existing switch, but since you've already ran a wire to the fan, why not just add a second switch?

Otherwise, take the two wires going to the existing switch, and connect them together. Connect the wires you added to the switch. Connect everything at the fan as I suggested above.

[hkstroud]

Remove outlet. Note which wire (should be black) is connected to the switched half of the outlet. Disconnect the wire (should be white) that is in the same cable as the wire to the switched half of the outlet. Install new outlet. Note that the old outlet had the tab between the two hot screws removed. Both halfs of the new outlet will be hot. Cap wires going to switch with wire nuts.

At the switch box, remove and cap both existing wires.

Install fan wiring as shown in my drawing. What I show as a light bulb will be your fan.

[Tev]

If you left the incoming power in the light box do as hkstroud suggests. If you removed it then when you replace the receptacle connect all the grounds in that box, then the whites, then the blacks. Then you can go to the switch and wire it how you had it in your picture.

The problem was that you had no neutral wire in the switch box and you needed one. Notice when you have the receptacle removed that the white to the switch is probably grouped with black wires and needs to be with the white/neutral ones. Once you do that the way you wired the switch and light should work fine.

[thehumanlynx]

I'd like the power from the outlet to go to the switch and then from the switch to the fan.

Hkstrouds diagram shows existing power going to the fan first and then to the switch.

Is there a way that I can have the power source pass through the outlet, then go to the switch and then the fan?

Tev, Are you suggesting not having an outlet there at all, by connecting the black, whites, and grounds in the box and bypassing the outlet?

I'm sorry if this is rudimentary for you guys, I just am still a little unsure of what is being suggested.

Thanks

[Tev]

Is there a way that I can have the power source pass through the outlet, then go to the switch and then the fan?

Tev, Are you suggesting not having an outlet there at all, by connecting the black, whites, and grounds in the box and bypassing the outlet?

Yes to the first question (just do what I am about to tell you), to the second question no. replace the outlet with a new one but in the box make sure all the ground wires are connected together including the outlet, all the whites are connected together including the outlet and all the blacks are connected together including the outlet. Be sure you connect the black(hot) and white(neutral) to the correct sides of the outlet. Make note of what goes where when you remove the old one. Then the wiring diagram you linked to in your first post will work exactly how you want it.

One more thing though, if you still have power going to the fan box from someplace else, make sure you put a wire nut on the end of each of those wires or else they could cause a fire, blow a breaker or hurt someone. Better still, remove them completely since you are unlikely to ever need them.

[thehumanlynx]

Ok, To clarify.

Does it look like this? Or am I way off?

And I already removed the power to the fan, I have romex running from the fan down to the switch (waiting to get power to it).

[Tev]

Yes, that is how you need to wire it.

[thehumanlynx]

yes, that is how you need to wire it.

Awesome, thanks for the help.

I'll do it tomorrow and get back if it doesn't go well.

Otherwise, Thank you very much.

[thehumanlynx]

Tev.

Hopefully you are still following this thread because I moved the bed out of the way and opened up the outlet box and found a mix of wires that looked like this

That is a little different than what I thought I was going to see. There is an extra set of wires that I don't know what to do with and it has confused me even more than anything previously had.

What do I need to do? I was all excited about getting the fan done and then I run across this stuff.

Thanks for the help.

You can email me if that would be easier, its my username at hotmail .

[Tev]

OK, that's exactly what I expected you would see. There is a piece of romex bringing power into the box and then one taking it out to another location and then your switch loop. The romex with the white attached to the blacks is the one going to your switch. That white should now go with the rest of the whites. The black coming from the switch needs to go with the rest of the black wires.

Replace the receptacle with a new one and don't break off that tab. Take all the whites and put them together in a wirenut including a short piece to your new receptacle. Then do the same for the blacks.

I think you are being confused because you don't understand how a switch loop works. What happens is the white wire takes power to the switch and then when you turn the switch on the black wire brings it back to the receptacle. Whoever installed it really should have reidentified the white as a hot wire on the switch loop but they did not.