[phildebenham]

Am I wrong if I am not a christian? Am I a heathen If I don't believe the bible is the word of GOD?

If the bible is true, than, yes you are wrong. If by "heathen" you mean "unbeliever", then yes you are a "heathen". If by "heathen" you mean something derogatory, the no you are not a "heathen".

Phil Debenham

[ScottGem]

Yes, we cannot deny that other faith exist. But this does not make them true. It is everyone's right to believe as they wish. That is why God gave us freedom of choice. He wants us to come to Him because we want to, not because we have to. That is why He did not build robots. Even the angels were given freedom of choice. That is how Satan was able to rebel, and take a third of the angles with him.

As a follower of Jesus, I must tell what His word says. That does not mean that I am saying that other faiths does not exist. It means that I believe the bible, and what it says. There are some things in the bible, which I do not understand, and I do not believe others understand it either. Because I believe it is not time for us to have this knowledge yet.

But the basics, I do understand, and that is what I base my beliefs on. I believe that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, and that it only through Him that we can be saved. That is what He said. Now that is true, or He is a liar. There is no inbetween. He cannot be both. I do not believe that He could lie, nor did He ever want to. So, in my heart, I know that He is who He said He was/is, and that is what I base my faith, my life, and the destiny of my soul. Amen..

Much better put! I am very happy for you that you have find comfort in your faith. As long as you relize that other people can find a similar solace and comfort in their faiths. You may not understand it, you may not agree with it, but you need to respect their right to believe.

I would add that there may be an "inbetween". The words of God and of Jesus were recorded by men. It is possible the words were not recorded exactly. Another possibility is that Jesus truly believed the things he taught. Even if they all weren't true, that does not make him a liar.

As I've said, I'm more concerned with living according to the ethical and moral guidelines set down in the Bible. I'm less concerned with the rest of trappings of worshipping some deity.

[rideout2]

Yes. I understand what you mean..

[phildebenham]

I would add that there may be an "inbetween". The words of God and of Jesus were recorded by men. It is possible the words were not recorded exactly. Another possibility is that Jesus truly believed the things he taught. Even if they all weren't true, that does not make him a liar.

No, it would not make him a liar, it would make him a lunatic.

[ScottGem]

No, it would not make him a liar, it would make him a lunatic.

I'm surprised to see you say that, Phil! Earlier in this thread someone insisted that God or Jesus had talked to her. Is she a lunatic? Does having faith in something, even where there is no concrete evidence, make someone crazy?

In my opinion, all religion is based on faith. Any evidence to support that faith is interpreted and not concrete. That does not make the faith any less powerful.

[arcura]

Phil,
The distionary says...
Lunatic:
* an insane person
* daredevil: a reckless impetuous irresponsible person
* insane and believed to be affected by the phases of the moon
I think that definition dose not apply to Jesus, but the word in the second definition line might apply to you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[phildebenham]

Another possibility is that Jesus truly believed the things he taught. Even if they all weren't true, that does not make him a liar.

Scott and Fred,

If Jesus truly believed the things he taught, and they were not true (of course I believe they were true), then that would make Jesus a lunatic. Jesus taught that he lived before Abraham, that he was the only way to the Father, that he was the "I AM." He taught that he would raise up his own body after he died. Surely, if I made those claims you would both consider me a lunatic!

Jesus was not a lunatic because what he taught is true.

There are really only three possibilities concerning Jesus in light of his life, teaching, and his death (which he could have avoided): he is either 1) a liar, 2) a lunatic, or 3) Lord. You need to decide which.

Phil Debenham

[rideout2]

You are right. I agree...

[arcura]

phildebenham,
Why did you include me in that statement?
Jesus Christ has been my Lord and saviour for over 70 years.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[ScottGem]

Phil,
Maybe my problem is with the term word lunatic. I find it to be pejorative and demeaning. A person can be delusional without suffering from lunacy. So I don't agree with your 3 options. Instead I would give the three as 1) a liar, 2) delusional or 3) son of God.

I would then opt for 2). His belief in his divinity was a mild delusion, but one caused him to do good works.

[phildebenham]

phildebenham,
Why did you include me in that statement?
Jesus Christ has been my Lord and saviour for over 70 years.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Fred,

So, you have made the choice, and no, I did not mean that you, but rather, Scott has to make the choice. You did not understand how I could respond to Scott's question that if Jesus believed what he said but it was not true he would have been a lunatic... and then called me irresponsible... so I included you in the explanation.

YBIC,

Phil

[phildebenham]

Phil,
Maybe my problem is with the term word lunatic. I find it to be pejorative and demeaning. A person can be delusional without suffering from lunacy. So I don't agree with your 3 options. Instead I would give the three as 1) a liar, 2) delusional or 3) son of God.

I would then opt for 2). His belief in his divinity was a mild delusion, but one caused him to do good works.

What are good works? Who decides what is good?

[ScottGem]

What are good works? Who decides what is good?

Ahh, now you seek to embroil me in a Catch 22. If there is no God, then how is a determination between good and evil made? Where did the Ten Commandments and the "Golden Rule" come from?

I'll be honest and say I have no good answer for that. My feeling is that these things evolved from a sense of survival. That man, being a social animal, devised these mores and ethics to allow for a more ordered society. One that would allow the individual to grow without impeding on other individuals and the society as a whole. I also believe that religions came to exist partially to codify and enforce these ethics.

[31pumpkin]

ScottGem:

I believe I had a response in the very beginning to the 15yo. I don't know if u saw it. Then we picked up the discussion further after it appeared that the girl left.

I don't want to go into the 3 major religions @ this point. I simply don't have time.

I agree with all the positive features of & in those religions.

But I still say that you are stating that you do not believe in God. You stated that YOU believe in a Judao-Christian ethic.
So why have you come to the RELIGION subcategory?

To be honest with you Scottgem, I see a problem with your thinking.
You said- "but we probably differ on the nature of the entity"
Did you know that Satan is an evil entity?

There are 2 key words I see that are being said by you that concerns me.
I am not a psychiatrist so don't take this to heart. But I do have some training in psychology.

The 2 words are in the same sentence. "NATURE" of the ENTITY"
When you can put down your anger and listen, I can show you how you can defeat the enemy through; FIRST by believing in God. The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, and Moses and yes, Jesus.

When you are willing to do that. Then you will truly have a Father in Heaven.

Then you can visit any Religion page & not have any confusion of the context of your response.

Your friend in Christ?
Me.

[phildebenham]

Ahh, now you seek to embroil me in a Catch 22. If there is no God, then how is a determination between good and evil made? Where did the Ten Commandments and the "Golden Rule" come from?

I'll be honest and say I have no good answer for that. My feeling is that these things evolved from a sense of survival. That man, being a social animal, devised these mores and ethics to allow for a more ordered society. One that would allow the individual to grow without impeding on other individuals and the society as a whole. I also believe that religions came to exist partially to codify and enforce these ethics.

That if molecules to man evolution is true, and there is no God who has communicated with man, then man determines truth and truth is whatever you make it.

[rideout2]

I will now, and forever, chose #3. The reason is, it is the only one which is true... God bless..

[KLW]

I believe that is you are open to finding the True God and ask him to reveal Himself to you then that will occur. The God of the Bible whose son is Jesus Christ is the only profit to ever live and die and be seen afterwards and raised into the sky. YOu can read history books from that same time frame and find that the Bible is true and validated. There is nothing in the Bible that can't be verified. Just begin to read a small portion at a time and maybe even attend a bible study w/ some friends. Just be open and the True God will make himself known to you. There are many different religions and faiths and it can and is so confusing.

Some say there is no heaven or hell; others say there are both. Some say all you have to be is good to go to heaven. Find out what the Bible tells you about these things. I believe in both and don't believe that going to heaven has anything to do with being good all by itself. It's about your beliefs.

Praying for you to find your answer.

[arcura]

Those are good suggestions.
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)

[ScottGem]

I started to research about alot of religions: Muslims, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christian,...
But then I found one thing out!
Christianity is the one real religion!
Every other religion died out or their God doesn't show any miracles or their are no prophecies in their word!

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong. Mohammed is Not the god of Islam, that is Allah. Mohammed was only a prophet. In actuality, Judaism. Christianity and Islam all worship the same god. Since all three acknowledge the Old Testament as the basis of each religion. The differences occur later as Christianity recognizes Jesus Christ as the son of God and Islam recognizes Mohammed as his last prophet.

As to prohecies and miracles, I think, if you research the Koran, more closely you will find Mohammed made a few prophecies and spoke of a few miracles.

If you want to believe that Christianity is the one true religion, that's your right. However, you will have to use a better argument, because yours is full of holes.

[talaniman]

You might want to go here,
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-...h+God+the+same