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    margog85's Avatar
    margog85 Posts: 241, Reputation: 19
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    #1

    Apr 16, 2010, 07:04 AM
    Dominant Male and Dominant Female Living Together
    We recently took in a new female dog- a pomeranian chihuahua mix who is about 2 1/2 yrs old. We already had a 5 yr old male pomeranian poodle mix. Both unaltered. I've never had two dogs before, so I'm just curious about how they are interacting.

    It seems like they both have dominant personalities. My dog keeps putting his head on her shoulders, over her head, and trying to put his paws on her back. (Not humping- just standing up on her back- which I understand is a dominance thing) She won't have it, and growls whenever he gets too close. She has been snarling and snapping at him--- and he just runs away, looks confused, and comes back to try again two seconds later. He does not, and never has, growled or bared his teeth or snapped (which she is doing pretty regularly)- he has a very sweet temperament, and I don't think he even knows how to bite! I don't want her to hurt him- but I also don't want to interfere if this is normal and how they work out who's "in charge".

    What should I look for to make sure things are going OK? Will they ever work it out or will this be a constant problem- its been about a day and a half so far.

    Thanks for any insight you may have.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #2

    Apr 16, 2010, 07:30 AM

    What are your plans for neutering so you won't have puppies?

    I have had neutered males/females where both were dominant and they worked it out. I never allowed fighting nor did I allow one to bully the other.
    Lucky098's Avatar
    Lucky098 Posts: 2,594, Reputation: 543
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    #3

    Apr 16, 2010, 08:13 AM

    Sounds like he's very unsocialized. Yes, what he is doing is a dominance behavior, but him not understanding her signals of "leave me alone" is a very unsocial dog.

    Getting both dogs fixed will definitely settle things down. Two intact dogs who think they're in charge, you could have an issue. To save you the problem of separating while she's in heat and him whinning while she is, get them fixed! And please, don't write back stating you want to breed... There is no need for you to breed.. To many dogs are put down each day for you to even want to consider breeder.

    Also, she will be in charge. Females always are. He needs to accept that.

    There isn't much you can do. Never leave them alone together and monitor them every time they're together. They need to establish who is in charge. If you interfer, you're just going to be prolonging the inevitable. She is more than likely going to "spank" him for standing on her back, which is what he needs. He's being very rude to her.

    Good Luck..
    margog85's Avatar
    margog85 Posts: 241, Reputation: 19
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    #4

    Apr 16, 2010, 08:59 AM

    I don't want to breed. She recently had puppies and we need to wait a bit for her to be spayed according to the vet. And he has seizures, so I'm waiting to hear back from the vet reg bloodwork to see if he can handle going under anesthesia.

    So is it normal behavior or should I correct him since he's being "rude"? Or should I let her do that? Should I correct her when she tries to bite him? Or is that the only way he'll learn what she means when she growls at him?

    I thought he was socialized, because his previous owner said he grew up with another dog. It's been about 3 yrs though, so maybe he forgot?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #5

    Apr 16, 2010, 09:00 AM

    The fact that he grew up with another dog may not mean he and your dog will get along. It's like people.

    Have to disagree with "females always dominate" comment - I've had both genders, mixed at times, and I have had males who were in charge, females who followed (including a female Rott and a male GSD).

    If you can't neuter one or both what are you going to do when she comes into heat?
    margog85's Avatar
    margog85 Posts: 241, Reputation: 19
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    #6

    Apr 16, 2010, 09:17 AM

    Well, I can definitely have her spayed- we have a vet appt next Fri to determine when that can be done. Would spaying her help him relax a bit (maybe change her scent or something?) or do they both need to be done?

    Do dogs usually start getting along right away? Or does it take time? And if they don't get along right away, is it possible that over time they'll get used to each other? I think he's just very curious and persistent, and she seems to just be getting annoyed with him following her everywhere and sniffing her constantly.

    He follows her and sniffs her butt a lot. Then he sniffs her ears and her face. When he gets near her face, she snarls and snaps at him. Should I correct him? Or her? Or both? Or is that normal?
    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #7

    Apr 16, 2010, 11:17 AM

    It usually takes some time for them to get used to each other. It's going to take them getting used to having another dog in the house. Remember he was your one and only, and now another dog is coming in. He wants her to know that it is HIS house.

    I wouldn't allow on to bully the other, but letting them work things out will help too. Have you thought about enrolling them in obiedience classes?

    They may never get along, and you may never be able to leave them alone together, but after they are altered they could become best friends.

    I've read and been told by my vet that once a male is altered he takes on the scent of a female dog.
    shazamataz's Avatar
    shazamataz Posts: 6,642, Reputation: 1244
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    #8

    Apr 16, 2010, 01:19 PM

    They will work out the pack order eventually, it just takes time.

    I was pretty lucky in that when I got my second dog he was very submissive to my female.
    When she snaps at him I do chastise her for it, she gets a no, and I grab her and just put my hands on each shoulder and hold her there for a minute, just to show her that I am the leader and I won't tolerate that behaviour in my pack... of coarse she still does it sometimes (when she has toys mostly) but after a few months they got along fantastic and now mostly play together.

    Spaying didn't fix my females dominance issues but I did it mostly for her health than to fix that.
    hheath541's Avatar
    hheath541 Posts: 2,762, Reputation: 584
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    #9

    Apr 16, 2010, 01:28 PM

    I say, as long as she's not actively going after him without cause, or harming him, then let them play it out. It sounds like she's only reacting to his actions. If she starts seeking him out to terrorize him, or following him even after he leaves her alone, then you have a problem.

    They'll probably either work it out or learn to ignore each other.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #10

    Apr 16, 2010, 02:03 PM

    I spent a lot of time saying, "Leave her alone." Eventually my dogs got the message and got used to each other.
    hheath541's Avatar
    hheath541 Posts: 2,762, Reputation: 584
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    #11

    Apr 16, 2010, 02:39 PM

    I know it works with cats, but I'm not sure if it'll work on your dogs, but you could try a squirt bottle. If you think she's being needlessly mean, just squirt her. Try to keep her from seeing where the water came from.
    twinkie15's Avatar
    twinkie15 Posts: 21, Reputation: 2
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    #12

    Apr 16, 2010, 03:04 PM
    When they fight hit them with roll of newspaper softly because its doesn't hurt it's the noise that scres them and it will make them stop
    Aurora_Bell's Avatar
    Aurora_Bell Posts: 4,193, Reputation: 822
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    #13

    Apr 16, 2010, 03:44 PM

    Do NOT hit yor dogs with anything.

    If you want to distract them with a noise get an air horn, or something else that makes an annoying offensive noise.

    Hitting is not the answer.
    margog85's Avatar
    margog85 Posts: 241, Reputation: 19
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    #14

    Apr 16, 2010, 04:38 PM

    I appreciate all of your advice. They seem to be starting to work things out as the day goes on. I've let her do her thing to correct him for being too pushy, and really only corrected her when she seemed to really be going after him. And I corrected him when he was really pestering her with the butt-sniffing. He now knows that "Knock it off" means that he has to leave her alone... They fell asleep snuggled together under the table earlier, which I thought was great... but then she goes on his bed and was growling at him to keep him off... and he just comes over looking at me, wide eyed and tail down, looking very confused about what he's supposed to be doing. They are sleeping on separate beds now- is that normal? Right next to each other and all, but separate.

    I am more confident that they'll work things out eventually, and am hoping that the neutering helps. I found a low cost clinic that I will be calling for him on monday- our vet charges $400, compared to $85 at the clinic I found!

    One more quick question- she's not really very playful with him yet... he tries to get her to play and she just stands and looks at him. But one or two times, she pounced on his back, and seemed to playfully bite his neck. He didn't seem to be bothered or hurt by it, and her tail was wagging, neither one was growling or anything... I just want to check that this is normal playful behavior for dogs? Never had two dogs before, so I want to be sure that I'm reading their behavior correctly and teaching them to act appropriately with each other, without correcting normal behavior that they should be engaging in.

    Thanks again for all of your advice--- it is very very helpful!
    Lucky098's Avatar
    Lucky098 Posts: 2,594, Reputation: 543
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    #15

    Apr 17, 2010, 08:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    The fact that he grew up with another dog may not mean he and your dog will get along. It's like people.

    Have to disagree with "females always dominate" comment - I've had both genders, mixed at times, and I have had males who were in charge, females who followed (including a female Rott and a male GSD).

    If you can't neuter one or both what are you going to do when she comes into heat?
    Perhaps your pup was a very docile pup and the males was more of a leader. That can happen.

    However, the females are always in charge. Both in wild dog packs, domestic dog packs, wolves and coyotes... the female is in charge. That statement also goes for horses, cows, lions, and many moree pack oriented animals. Which is why its always easier to match a boy with a girl.

    I'm not saying that there is no such thing as an "in charge" male, because they do exist. However when it comes down to it, the female will call the shots in just about every case.

    Of coarse you can bend the laws of nature if you know what your doing... I have a brood of all females. Two spayed, two not. I have no problems what so ever. Everyone knows their roll in this pack. A lot of people are amazed that four females get along peacefully. But then again I am the ultimate pack leader, not them. And they all know that.

    But like ki said, the op's boy sounds very unsocialized. He may be OK with dogs outside his home, but dogs who live inside the home with him, he may not know what to do. Things will settle down. Shell relax which will cause him to relax. Never leave them alone together for any extended period... probably close to 6 months.
    margog85's Avatar
    margog85 Posts: 241, Reputation: 19
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    #16

    Apr 17, 2010, 09:35 AM

    They are getting along much better. Were playing well together today. He's beginning to understand that growling means "get the hell away from me", and has eased up wit the sniffing and mounting. I'm hoping it'll get even easier once I get him neutered.

    I do have another, somewhat unrelated question. She gave birth about 11 weeks ago, according to her previous owner. The woman we got her from said that she had taken her to the vet and that her nipples should tuck back up over the next few weeks- I was looking at her today though, and all except the back two have decreased in size. The back two are still very large, almost down to the floor. Look like they still have milk in them or something. Is this normal for a dog who gave birth eleven weeks ago? She licks them often, but when I touch them, doesn't react-- so I don't think she's in pain... but maybe she is, who knows.

    We have a vet appt for her on Thurs afternoon to have it checked (the earliest they could take her) but I want to be sure it's not something I should be concerned about immediately treating? Or is it just normal? I never had a female dog beore, so I'm not so sure what to expect.

    Thanks!
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #17

    Apr 17, 2010, 03:52 PM

    Maybe I take things too literally; maybe I don't. Maybe I've worked in the legal field too long BUT "always" and "just about" are two different things.

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