[jammixmaster]

Indeed. And that is worth more than most of the statements here, including yours !
Of course anyone may believe that magic is real. But if one states that magic is real, one has to be able to prove that, if asked. So far I asked several times, but nobody could provide the proof !

What I don't understand is why you just won't prove it to yourself? Why do you keep asking someone else to do it when you are perfectly capable of doing it yourself?

[sarnian]

jammixmaster

I do not claim anything : you do that!!
It is you who claims that magic is real.
All I asked you was to support your claim with proof.
Why should I have to prove anything?
You claim, but you seem incapable to prove it.
Don't ask me to prove anything.

[jammixmaster]

jammixmaster

I do not claim anything : you do that !!!
It is you who claims that magic is real.
All I asked you was to support your claim with proof.
Why should I have to prove anything?
You claim, but you seem incapable to prove it.
Don't ask me to prove anything.

All right, first of all, I NEVER said you claimed anything. If I did, show me. Second, I keep telling you time and time again, YOU CANNOT PROVE MAGIC OVER THE INTERNET WITH WORDS. If you're too feeble minded to understand that then there is no hope for you. Unless I video tape myself performing a spell and send it to you there is NO WAY TO PROVE IT OVER THE INTERNET like you keep asking. So, in order for me to prove it to you you have to prove it to yourself. You said "Don't ask me to prove anything", all right fine... then the same goes for you. It's got to be a two way street. So, if you won't prove it to yourself then you'll never get the proof you want. So go ahead, keep asking for proof, you'll just never get it.

[sarnian]

Jammixmaster

Second, I keep telling you time and time again, YOU CANNOT PROVE MAGIC

You may believe in it, but just as religion you can not prove it is real.
Logically, as that is the essence of believing in something : acceptance without proof.
You stated that magic is real. You must believe that , as you can not prove that.

You said "Don't ask me to prove anything", all right fine... then the same goes for you. It's got to be a two way street.

Not at all : I do not claim anything. I ask for your proof that magic is real.
Do not suggest that I claim the opposite of what you claim.

So go ahead, keep asking for proof, you'll just never get it.

I will. And if I never get that, it is because all you do is believe you are correct that magic is real...

[jammixmaster]

So basically all I'm getting from you is that rather than using that "scientific" brain of yours to prove it to yourself, you're going to keep running in circles by asking others to prove it to you? Hmmm... Einstein would be proud.

[NeedKarma]

Jam,
Can you gives the steps required to reproduce magic on our end? That's how Einstein would do it.

[jammixmaster]

"Einstein would be proud" was sarcasm. But yes, I can tell you the steps I use to do magic. I'll explain the steps I use to cast a spell rather than perform a ritual, as spells are a lot easier to do and are less time consuming.

First I ground and center myself, one must have a focused mind when casting a spell. Next, I gather any necessary materials needed for the spell, such as candles, incense, herbs, etc. Then I would cast a circle and evoke the elements (if necessary) then evoke the Goddess and/or God (also if necessary). After that, I would proceed with the magical working (the spell).

*The actual steps for casting the spell would vary depending on the spell being cast. For example, a love spell would not have the same steps as a prosperity spell.*

Once the spell has been cast I would then thank the Goddess and/or God for being present as well as the elements and one by one I would give them the license to depart. Then I would take down (or "un-cast") the circle and ground and center again. Those are the basic steps that I would take to cast a spell. *NOTE: The actual methods vary from Wiccan to Wiccan. So the way I cast my spells may be 100% different from the Wiccan down the street*

[NeedKarma]

Ok I'll try that and report back if I made magic.

[jammixmaster]

Um... what exactly would you try? I didn't give you the steps for the spell that I would cast. I gave you the outline of casting a spell but not an actual spell to cast... so what exactly would you try? I said:

*The actual steps for casting the spell would vary depending on the spell being cast. For example, a love spell would not have the same steps as a prosperity spell.*

That indicated that I didn't give an ACTUAL spell, just the outline. But if you do manage to construct an actual spell, good luck evoking the elements or the Goddess and God. You don't believe in magic so why should it work for you? It's kind of like a Christian praying to Buddha. Christians don't believe in Buddha so why should he answer their prayers. If you were to truly try to use the shell I gave you NeedKarma, you would be mocking the Wiccan faith... not cool.

[NeedKarma]

Ok, can you give the steps for a spell I can try at home?

[jammixmaster]

Ok, can you give the steps for a spell I can try at home?

There are plenty of websites with spells on them to try at home. But like I said, you're a non-believer in either magic as a religion or a folk art. So chances are, if you cast a spell, it won't work for you. Magic works by "like attracting like". So if you don't believe in magic then why should it work? But if you truly want to cast a spell just Google the kind of spell you want and thousands of web matches should come up. I'd say wait at least 30 days (the average life span of a spell with the exception of the 7 Day Money Spell) before you decide if its worked or not.

[optimistic]

Hi
I think that magic exist but what you are talking about is not magic it's scientific facts inventing electricity just means that some one discovered something
Also some people have special powers like the ability to Move salt shakers across the table using their eyes for example
But if you watch what david Copperfield does that is the real magic but he do it by interacting with some creatures that we called as jennies and they are own special power
I think that you should think again about what magic means I believe that it does exist but not in the same way that you are talking about

[NeedKarma]

But like I said, you're a non-believer in either magic as a religion or a folk art. So chances are, if you cast a spell, it wont work for you. Magic works by "like attracting like". So if you don't believe in magic then why should it work?

If it's real then why do I need to believe in it? Are there any good websites with spells that you can recommend?

[jammixmaster]

I don't know of any websites myself, as I either create my own spells or get them from books from established and recognizable Wiccan and Pagan authors. But I did a Google search and found this website

Spells and Magic. spells, hexes, occult knowledge, black and white magic.

And to answer your question about not believing but it still working... that's not how it works. Magic isn't physical, like a car or a boat. If your car is in running condition, whether you believe it or not, the car will run. Magic doesn't work like that. As stated before to Sarnian, it would take too long to explain exactly how it works on here. The only example I can give is this: Its like when you go to a club and they have a VIP room. Only VIPs (rich people, the club owners friends, celebrities or just well known people) are allowed up there. If you're not a VIP you can't get into the room. Why do you have to be a VIP? I don't know, that's just how the social system works. So apply that to our conversation. Why do you need to believe in magic for it to work? I don't know, that's just how the system works.

[sarnian]

... it would take too long to explain exactly how it works on here. The only example I can give is this: Its like when you go to a club and they have a VIP room. Only VIPs (rich people, the club owners friends, celebrities or just well known people) are allowed up there. If you're not a VIP you can't get into the room. Why do you have to be a VIP? I don't know, that's just how the social system works. So apply that to our conversation. Why do you need to believe in magic for it to work? I don't know, thats just how the system works.

A perfect display of total lack of support for a claimed and wild statement...

[NeedKarma]

A perfect display of total lack of support for a claimed wild statement...

Yjere is perfect support! As per the link he posted:

Many of you ask ... well how long will it take to work? That is up to the Universe as to when it will manifest. It could be a couple days or it could take weeks or a couple months. There have been many times I have done spells an had no quick results and then POOF! Two months later it happens!

[jammixmaster]

A perfect display of total lack of support for a claimed wild statement ...

... just like your total lack of intelligence to TRY IT ON YOUR OWN.:D

[jammixmaster]

Yjere is perfect support! As per the link he posted:

So what exactly are you saying?

[ar9763]

Um...
Magic isn't real. Ur an idiot, looking for attention. Look somewhere else. The internet has enough crap on it already.

[sarnian]

.......just like your total lack of intelligence to TRY IT ON YOUR OWN.

There is nothing wrong with my intellect. But there is everything wrong in your argumentation and the support of your invalid statements.