[deepakz_world]

Hi,
I live in Sunnyvale, California.
My apartment complex recently replaced all the toilets in the entire complex with the eco-friendly ones.
Our building's turn came over the long weekend and we were away. They changed the toilet on Thursday and a water pipe started leaking rapidly on Saturday early morning. This flooded the entire apartment and most of the our clothes and some of the furniture got permanently damaged.
The maintenance workers came in only 2.5 hrs. later when the water flew out of the apartment and they cleaned it up. But the carpets were still soaked and the clothes and furniture remained wet until we came in on Tuesday morning.
We roughly assess our loss to be about 2.5K for the garments and the furniture. I have a renter's insurance policy with a 1K deductible.
However, since this is due to toilet upgrade the apartment management did, it is entirely due to their human-error.
However, in my lease agreement, there is a clause that says:
"WAIVER OF CLAIMS AND INDEMNIFICATION:
............<lot of text>
Tenant hereby expressly releases Owner any and all liability or loss or damage to Tenant's property arising out of water leakage, borken pipes, theft or other criminal activity.
............<lot of text>
"
Do you think it would still be a good idea to file a 'small claim' against the apartment management as this has been caused due ot their faulty installation of th new toilet system?

Thanks so much in anticipation

[JudyKayTee]

You CANNOT waive your rights, no matter what the contract/lease says. This would be the same as me having you sign a waiver that if you are a passenger in my car and I'm in an accident, you can't sue.

You bet I'd sue in Small Claims Court - and I'd be there first thing in the AM.

It would appear that your homeowners policy had reasonable coverage - this was their mistake, not some "spontaneous" plumbing failure.

I can't wait to see how this works out - please keep us informed.

[ScottGem]

Let your insurance company handle it. They can sue if they feel there is a case.

Was the work done by maintenance workers or an outside contractor. If a contractor, sue them.

[JudyKayTee]

I don't know, Scott - the insurance company will sue (idemnify) for the amount of the insurance, not for anything over and above. That's up to the OP.

- Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[deepakz_world]

Thank you so much for your quick responses guys, I really appreciate it. The apartment complex has torn out the carpet from the entire apartment and took out all the doors. Living here is pretty challenging for the next couple of days when you can't even step on the floor as it is full of damp wood and loose nuts and bolts.
The apartments office just called me to tell that they will waive off the rent for these 3 days until they put the new carpets in (wow!! ).
However, my question here is:
What is the downside of me filing a 'smaill claim' against them and not getting the result in my favor? I mean, is there nay possibility they can sue me back for anything?

Thanks Again

[JudyKayTee]

They have no grounds against you, assuming you have posted all the facts, the complete truth.

Might they try to take revenge? Certainly. I have no idea what form that might take. Before you take the free rent I'd make sure what you are or are not waiving.

[deepakz_world]

Thanks again Judy. Yes, I have posted all the facts to the best of my knowledge and am not accepting any free rent for the time being. This is just an offer made my them.

[kalliereann]

I would sue in small claims court only AFTER contacting some sort of California legal services. Maybe use lawhelpcalifornia.org.

You have renters insurance for your benefit.
They should have insurance for the building, but they will do an investigation. If they find it is due to their negligence or faulty work, they will be 100% liable. Insurance companies are in depth at checking for wrong-doings these days.

You may also want to ask your landlord if the people doing the work were licensed and bonded. They ultimately have the decision in who to hire for repairs, but since there are damages to YOUR property, that may play in your favor if they weren't experts in their field.

[deepakz_world]

I again went to the apartment office today to ask who did the upgrade and they told me that it is the Santa Clara county people who did it in their effort to go green. Also, they say it's the water pipe that burst and had nothing to do with installing the new toilets.
I don't believe that it true since we never had any leakage issues in the past 3 years in this apartment and this happened only after installing the new toilets and that too when no one was using it (as we were away on the vacation).
Similar incidents have happened in other buildings after installing the new toilets in our complex but since people were at home while this happened, all of them were able to save their personal properties.
The damage to our apartment is huge just because no one attended to it for a few hours until the water started flowing out of the unit into the corridor.

[kalliereann]

I would assume that it has to do with the actual pipes/lines themselves.
Or perhaps someone did not make sure the water was off at the valve before doing repairs.

In most cases, repairs like this require also inspecting the pipes and doing any necessary upgrades.

If you don't mind me asking, when was the unit built?

I grew up in San Jose so I know the rents are expensive and most of the units are not brand new in the area.
IF it was the county, you have every right to tell your landlord you want their information to file a complaint. If it is the county, they are more than likely licensed and bonded. It would then rely on your landlord having them fix the issue.

This sounds complicated because I have a feeling there will be an investigation to determine who is responsible. Document every effort you've made to contact the landlord or the county in order to resolve this issue.

[deepakz_world]

Thanks kalliereann.
As far as I could search online, these units seemed to have been built in 1972 and looking at their conditions, one will not argue. These are not new, although some minor upgrades have been, but the overall condition is very average.
Yes, we do pay a heavy rent for this complex due to its location and a very active clubhouse and community services that can hardly be found elsewhere.

[JudyKayTee]

I would assume that it has to do with the actual pipes/lines themselves.
Or perhaps someone did not make sure the water was off at the valve before doing repairs.

In most cases, repairs like this require also inspecting the pipes and doing any necessary upgrades.

If you don't mind me asking, when was the unit built?

I grew up in San Jose so I know the rents are expensive and most of the units are not brand new in the area.
IF it was the county, you have every right to tell your landlord you want their information to file a complaint. If it is the county, they are more than likely licensed and bonded. It would then rely on your landlord having them fix the issue.

This sounds complicated due to the fact that I have a feeling there will be an investigation to determine who is responsible. Document every effort you've made to contact the landlord or the county in order to resolve this issue.

You are making this FAR more complicated than it needs to be. I have no idea what your legal education or experience are but this is NOT a complicated matter.

OP (tenant) has no direct claim against a plumber, the City, anyone else EXCEPT the apartment owners. She files a claim/sues the owners and THEY drag in anyone else they feel is responsible. As far as insurance companies investigating (and I'm a liability investigator) they will investigate to the extent of the policy. Likewise, the insurance company will pay the claim and then pursue the complex for reimbursement - there is no direct claim by the company against the company that did the installation and/or built the complex.

I don't see why the age of the building is the least bit relevant - this didn't spontaneously happen. Plumbing work or repairs were done; the apartment flooded. That doesn't seem like a coincidence to me and it's NOT going to look like a coincidence to the Court.

I am not recommending that the OP simply race off to Small Claims Court without giving the property owner an opportunity to make things right BUT OP is living in unpleasant and possibly unsanitary conditions and the property owner appears to be doing exactly nothing but making excuses.

And I do own rental property and I have had plumbing problems on occasion.

My advice as originally given still stands. There is absolutely no need to complicate this very simple claim.

As far as whatever the owners are saying, I wouldn't be surprised. Apparently they feel some defense (no matter how off center) is better than no defense. This is not the least bit uncommon.

I am curious about your experience with this type of situation.

[ScottGem]

One other point. The clause you cited protects them against accidental damage. But you can't sign away your rights due to negligence. I would talk to management about putting in a claim on their insurance for the deductible. If they refuse, then you can sue anyone involved with the repair.

[JudyKayTee]

I'll be curious to see how this works out - I believe there is no direct connection between OP and the party who did the work; therefore, the party to be sued is the property owner. The property owner is ultimately responsible and would then have to go against the contractor. Same with the insurance claim - the owner will bring in any and all other parties.

Of course, until the claim is submitted to the owner by the insurance company, this is all moot.

[excon]

Also, they say it's the water pipe that burst and had nothing to do with installing the new toilets..

Hello d:

Of course, they're going to DENY liability. But, I like you, think they are. By the way, in your lease under the waiver you gave them, I see that it covers "water leakage". This wasn't leakage. It was negligence. You didn't give them a pass on that.

excon

[deepakz_world]

Thank you all once again. I would also be trying to take a legal advice at my place or work, if it is available, before taking any action.
In case I do decide to file a claim, do you think I should inform the apartment management of my decision and see what they have to say or would it go against me?

[excon]

do you think I should inform the apartment management of my decision and see what they have to say or would it go against me?

Hello again, d:

They have obligations towards you, and it doesn't matter whether they LIKE you or LIKE doing them. What's important is that they DO them. They certainly didn't do them when you only TALKED to them before. Why do you think it would be different THIS TIME?

It's time to do something with a little more TEETH than talking has. If you WISH to give them a heads up, that's fine. Write them a letter, and HAND deliver it. Tell them they have until the close of business TODAY to make you happy or you'll sue. You don't have to be MEAN. You just have to be SERIOUS.

excon

[kalliereann]

I have worked in property management throughout the Vegas valley and
Taken various courses.

The reason the age of the building may be important is because during a certain period, residences were built using copper pipes that have been known to burst/crack.

As a matter of fact, my entire development (owned) is suing the builders for knowing this.
If they changed the toilets but knew the plumbing needed repair, that is definitely negligence.
But the landlord might not have known about it. It would be
The city's job to inform them of this.

[JudyKayTee]

I have worked in property management throughout the Vegas valley and
taken various courses.

The reason the age of the building may be important is because during a certain period, residences were built using copper pipes that have been known to burst/crack.

As a matter of fact, my entire development (owned) is suing the builders for knowing this.
If they changed the toilets but knew the plumbing needed repair, that is definitely negligence.
But the landlord might not have known about it. It would be
the city's job to inform them of this.

Fascinating - but this has NOTHING to do with the tenant's cause of action against the property owner. The tenant is blameless and, again, has no direct cause of action against the plumbing contractor.

Your "owned" development is suing the builders because you have a direct connection to the builder. If you were renters you would not have a direct cause of action and would be moving against the owners.

I also took real property classes - in law school.

[deepakz_world]

Hi All,
As Promised I am posting the progress in this case. Well, I contact our Santa Clara Country Mediator for Landlord/Tenant issues and he talked to the apartment management on my behalf. The management, in turn, talked to the company to whom they sub-contracted the plumbing work.
They finally got back to me saying that I'd still have to use my renter's insurance but the company that did the plumbing is ready to pay the insurance deductible (which is $1000). Also, they want me to sign a letter which releases them of any obligation, whatsoever, related to this incident before they can contact the plumbing company to issue a check in my name. I have decided to accept this rather than going to the small claims court, provided they issue us the check. The only downside to this is my renter's insurance might go up.
I am processing the claim with my insurance company right now. Once it's done, I am thinking of asking the apartment management to hand over the check when I sign the paperwork as I don't feel comfortable signing it before they issue me the check.
Anyway, thanks a lot for all your help and I'll update you in case they don't stand by their word :-)
I greatly appreciate all of you taking time out of your lives to go through this thread and guide me :-)