[mountain_man]

As a Christian, do you believe that you are "once saved always saved" or do you believe there is a way or different ways one can lose their salvation? Very interested to get your feedback.:D

[N0help4u]

Many people THINK they are saved because they said the sinners prayer or they grew up in church or they religiously do good works but Matthew 7 says

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
Iniquity.

So I believe if you are truly saved then you can not lose your salvation

[JBeaucaire]

THE "LOSE" YOUR SALVATION MISDIRECTION

You know, words mean things. They often quite specific. The word "lose" is one of those pretty specific words. In the Christian debate over the permanence of the salvation experience, I get pretty frustrated when the phrase "lose your salvation" is tossed around. It's awfully vague and inaccurate. It misdirects the whole debate.

I really wish we could get EVERYONE to stop people from asking "can you lose your salvation"? Anytime you hear it, you stop, and correct the premise. Salvation isn't a set of keys to be misplaced. It's not a wrong turn leading you to the wrong address.

The real issue here is "once you have experienced God's grace on your life, once you have accepted His gift and claimed him as your Lord, can that ever be undone?"

To answer that, I often have to correct another slight misgiving people have about becoming saved. The Bible tells us that we are not saved by anything man does, but we are saved by what God has done in sacrificing His Son so that we do not have to experience the punishment for our sins ourself. Ok, fine and good.

So your salvation can't be "lost" accidentally along the way, but it can be forfeited on purpose. So the answer to the question "can salvation be undone?" I believe is "yes"... but only through intentional free will at work.

BUT, we actually DO have to do something to be saved. MAN has to make a choice, MAN has to choose to accept the gift given. So, we are participants in the process. We can choose God, or choose not God.

Once we acknowledge our required part in the "finding salvation" process, AND we've corrected the question about permanence removing the inappropriate word "lost", I believe the debate is simpler.

My belief is you cannot "lose" your salvation, if you sin after Christ has established himself in your life (and you WILL sin), then those sins are covered by the blood sacrifice. But, I believe you can CHOOSE to walk away from the gift. Free Will says this must be the case.

You choose to accept Christ, and you can intentionally choose to deny him forever at some point in the future. You can walk away. You cannot lose your salvation through sin alone, since all sin is equal in God's eye and thus all sin is covered by the grace gift.

[N0help4u]

... and the Bible says they are given over to a reprobate mind meaning they have no desire to *come back* to God. If they still have a desire to come back then they are more like the prodigal son.

[arcura]

YES a person can loose his/her salvation.:eek:
I’ll try to keep this short, but a small book could be written to cover all the different ways.
If we believe what the bible says about salvation.
Once saved always saved (or know so salvation) is a heresy.
The bible tells us in several ways that faith alone does not save.
The clearest message about that is in the book of James.
It says that a faith without works is dead.
A dead faith is and unproven faith. It is merely a claimed faith with nothing to back it up.
Another of the several ways a person can loose salvation is shown by statements Jesus made in several ways.
Basically it is this you must be forgiven of your sins and if you do not forgive others you will not be forgiven.
Also, the Lord’s Prayer Jesus taught us gives a clear understanding of that, “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
In that we actually ask God to forgive us as we forgive others.
If we don’t He won’t.
If we forgive with reservations such as, “I’ll forgive them only when they apologies and ask for forgiveness then I will do so.”
How many of us can remember every sin we commit?
How many people who have sinned against us can remember or even KNOW that they have sinned against us in thought, word, or deed?
In that stipulation we are asking God to forgive only the sins we confess and are sorry for, not those we have forgotten or don’t realize that we sinned.
Another way to lose salvation is for a person who once DID accept God and Christ’s salvation latter rejects them such as a once believer who turns to become an atheist.
Such does happen and often it happens to those who are converted to godless science beliefs.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

[mountain_man]

I agree that "lose" is an inaccurate term as been said you don't just drop your salvation and then forgot where it fell, losing it forever. It is clearly an act of free will and you can choose to abandon or turn your back on the gift God has given.

I have been challenged by this key theological issue by a book I am reading (Driven by Eternity) and am in agreement with the author and what you all are saying. This message should not be overlooked in our churches as we all need to have a firm view on this foundational premise and have a healthy fear of the Lord.

Thanks for your feedback.

[sndbay]

We are not to set stumbling blocks before others or we ourselves do sin. But to follow Christ is acknowledgement of all that is written as truth about Him. Christ was worthy as the begotten Son of God. Walking with Christ is loving God as He loves us. We are told that even as believers we still are sinners but those sins are wash clean in Christ. Humble yourself in knowing you can not rid yourself of those sin. God knows what is within your heart. You must be accountable to your actions

[sndbay]

agrees... how does it further this current discussion Did I miss it?

The answer to your question is that I was making the statement shown because of the quote below or part of it. This idea quoted is a traditionally taught way of looking at what the scripture have said. They were taught to confess each sin as they knew it. He has even questioned how anyone can know them all.. So he ended it that he has only confess sins that he knew... This is such a sad stumbling stone that was taught. For Christ Truth has brought so much more...

Basically it is this you must be forgiven of your sins and if you do not forgive others you will not be forgiven.
Also, the Lord's Prayer Jesus taught us gives a clear understanding of that, “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
In that we actually ask God to forgive us as we forgive others.
If we don't He won't.
If we forgive with reservations such as, “I'll forgive them only when they apologies and ask for forgiveness then I will do so.”
How many of us can remember each and every sin we commit?
How many people who have sinned against us can remember or even KNOW that they have sinned against us in thought, word, or deed?
In that stipulation we are asking God to forgive only the sins we confess and are sorry for, not those we have forgotten or don't realize that we sinned.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

I hope that God brings him closer to the Truth in knowing all sins are forgiven when you repent and humble yourself knowing you are a sinner, and it is not confess to each that makes or breaks your salvation. As I said you can not rid yourself of sin by confession. Jesus is the judge and no one else.. . what is in your heart and soul is what matters.

[JBeaucaire]

OK, that makes sense. We're just drifting slightly (not far) off topic, so I got lost. (easy for me to do... hehe).

[arcura]

sndbay,
It is not I who said that your sins are not forgive IF you do not forgive others.
Jesus Christ said it in several ways.
I believe Jesus he made it clear that If we forgive others only then He will forgive us.
That IS in the Holy Bible.
Peace and kindness

[sndbay]

sndbay,
It is not I who said that your sins are not forgive IF you do not forgive others.
Jesus Christ said it in several ways.
I believe Jesus he made it clear that If we forgive others only then He will forgive us.
That IS in the Holy Bible.
Peace and kindness

Yes Jesus told us to be of pure hearted. Loving one another and not causing harm to one another. It is also a commandment. So in being forgiving to others is another way of saying be pure hearted to others. And Christ is not likely to find forgiveness in someone that holds no love for others in his heart.
`In Chirst

[arcura]

sndbay,
Very good observation on that.
Well said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[classyT]

As a Christian, do you believe that you are "once saved always saved" or do you believe there is a way or different ways one can lose their salvation? Very interested to get your feedback.:D

The Bible is CLEAR on this... IF you are a Blood bought, born again Christian, IN CHRIST, CHRIST IN YOU, sealed with the HOlY SPIRIT of promise, there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can cause you to LOSE your salvation! Period...

I will ONLY add this... I said... IF!

[JBeaucaire]

Lose accidentally or sin away = no.
Walk away from intentionally or forfeit = yes.

[arcura]

As I explained presiously here, there ARE ways that a person CAN lose their salvation. The bible makes that clear. Jesus Christ's words on it make that clear.
You must be forgiven to get into heaven and IF you do not forgive others you will NOT be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[N0help4u]

If they 'lose' their salvation and never 'find it' again they were never really 'saved' and only believed they were.
If they were truly 'saved' and lost it then the verse about God giving them over to a reprobate mind applies and you have to do some really serious sin for that.
If you do not forgive then you have not grown spiritually and most likely never really saved to begin with.
Many people think they can say the sinners prayer, or a bunch of hail Mary's or do good works, or even say I am saved because my grandma told me. So really it is a fruitless argument as long as we do not know the persons real heart and do not know IF they were ever truly 'saved' to begin with.

[MoonlitWaves]

If they 'lose' their salvation and never 'find it' again they were never really 'saved' and only believed they were.

I agree. You cannot lose your salvation!

And anyone who "walks away" from salvation wasn't saved to begin with.

I can't help but wonder if those who think salvation can be lost truly feel the strength and power of the Holy Spirit.

If anyone could go from truly saved to not saved then Jesus' death would not be good enough. I feel pity in my heart for anyone who believes such a thing. The only thing Jesus' death does not cover is those who don't accept God's free gift of salvation through the Son Jesus. Jesus' blood covers ALL sin.

Therefore salvation cannot be lost, and anyone who is truly saved wouldn't walk away from it!

[arcura]

Jesus tells us in several ways that one must forgive others to be forgiven.
He talk us to pray, "Forgive us our trespasses AS WE forgive those who trespass against us."
It is clear that salvation is NOT for those who refuse to forgive.
Whether you want to call that lose salvation or never had, the fact of Jesus Christ's words remains.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[inthebox]

Arcura:

I admit this is, at times, confusing to me,

Does faith come first then the deeds, as referred to by James, such as forgiving others, come after?

Or is the deeds that lead to faith?

John 15

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing

I appreciate your opinion.

Grace and Peace,
Gerry

[Tj3]

Does faith come first then the deeds, as referred to by James, such as forgiving others, come after?

Or is the deeds that lead to faith?

If we examine the Greek text we find that the word in the NT translated as "faith" and "faithfulness" is the same word (in Greek it is pistis). This will help us understand that our faith, if it is real, will exhibit itself in faithfulness (thus deeds). To be faithful, one must first have faith. It would make no sense to suggest that one could exhibit their faithfulness to God before they had faith.

If we consider scripture this way, the relationship between faith and works becomes clearer. For example, the passage that is often used to suggest that works are necessary for salvation suddenly loses the apparent ambiguity:

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
NKJV

If we replace the word "faith" with "faithfulness", we read:

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faithfulness without works is dead also."

This makes sense. If a person truly has faith, that faith will exhibit itself in faithfulness by means of works. If a person is not faithful by acting on that faith, then one could rightly ask if they have a true or living faith. Read with this understanding of the original Greek, we can see that there is no passage which, read in context, suggests that works comes first.

Further, scripture is clear that woprks without first having faith in God cannot please God:

Rom 8:7-8
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
NKJV

Thus it is first faith, which results in faithfulness, which produces works pleasing to God.