Ask Me Help Desk - A discussion (please stay friendly)

A discussion (please stay friendly)

So. I wish to have this discussion. And I feel this is the best place/site to do it as we have many different faiths and views here.

Many of you already know. I struggle with my 'religion'. Do not take that to mean I struggle with my FAITH. I love God with all my heart. I treasure him and there is no one I love more. And the same goes for Jesus Christ, sent by God, our wonderful man who taught us so much of God.
However, I grew up Christian, spent a great deal of adulthood (or what adult hood I have had so far lol) in a catholic church. And recently over the last 2 years, have learned a great deal about Islam and in fact even have gone to see the local Imam several times, and love Islam very much. I still struggle with just where I belong, (what church/denomination/religion/ect)
But I never struggle with my faith and love for God and Christ.

Now, my discussion...
I do not, nor have I ever even as a child, believed that Christ was GOD. He was sent BY God, born of a virgin because GOD wanted it so. But Christ is NOT God. He is his SON.
(in fact it is this belief that led me to Islam in the first place)
But I am not Jehovah witness nor Mormon. They also believe that Jesus is not god, but both these religions believe things that I do not. (do you see how frustrating this is for me lol. Not ONE religion fits me perfectly. Maybe I should make a new one! )

I am not here to push this belief on anyone. I am here to get other views. I want to know what others think of my logic behind this. And see how others feel about it. And find out if anyone else feels the same way.

The reasons I believe this are... (in order of importance)

First, the most important, it goes against the commandments. The FIRST commandment. You shall not have any other Gods before me. GOD IS THE ONLY GOD. NO one else.

Second, If Jesus is God, why did God say he sent Jesus to us? Why did he not say 'I came to you in human form to guide you and teach you'
Not once did God say 'I came as human to you' And Jesus always said 'i was sent by my father'

Next, Jesus never said he was God. I know people claim this is not true, because of the first verse in John, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So... I find it hard to believe that Jesus is now a word. Or The word. Or several words. Gods words, is just that. His words. He spoke them. And they came to be. We are ALL his word. He spoke the word and brought light. Spoke the word and brought Life. We are ALL his words. Not JUST Christ.

Next. Jesus did NOT have Godly Powers. Nor was he infallible. In fact, Jesus was far from perfect. Sinless does not equal perfect and Godly. Jesus didn't know that a fig tree didn't have any fruit because it was not the season for it. He didn't know who touched him in one of his healings. Most important, Jesus did not/does not know when the last day will be. GOD knows EVERYTHING. Jesus did not. (this is NOT a knock at him)

Jesus is not perfect in the fact that he must eat. He must sleep. He must use the bathroom. He must wash. Ect. God does not need to do these things.

Jesus was tempted by the devil. I don't believe the Devil would tempt GOD.

I think I have lost my train of thought here. Lol. So lets leave it at this. And if anything else comes to mind, ill just post about it :)

Remember, keep it friendly and respectful of ALL who choose to answer :)

I believe God is one Being but is also three Persons -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The only way my mind can begin to wrap itself around that is by thinking that I can also be three persons in one being -- I am a daughter, a mother, and a wife, yet all of those are that unique being known as Carol.

I believe Jesus was God the Son, God here on earth. He was human but also divine for those 33 or so years. (No, no one can explain how those two natures were mixed inside him.)

Jesus, as a human, did not do anything wrong at all when he lived on earth, and that's why God the Father accepted his perfect sacrifice for the rest of us who aren't perfect.

Of course Islam mentions Jesus more than any other person in their writings, They accept his virgin birth and most of the things he did. With the exception of his death and being raised again.

My comparison of his coming in the last day, would reflect to the Islam believe of the Angel of Light ( sorry if I get this wrong slightly) that will come again on or near the end of mankind.

And yes I follow, which is the Christian teaching in all but a few groups, is that Jesus, is and was part of God, That God is not a person and does not have limits. It is only our minds which can not understand how God can be in all places, part of all things but yet still be God.

We are told in the bible, that the only way to God the Father is though Jesus, he is the gate ( for lack of a better term) It was his death, by taking our sin on his self that allows this to happen.

This is what comes of wandering around aimlessly, you become confused. You are confused about the person of Jesus Christ. He is who he said he is, not who Islam says he is. If Jesus were not God you could not pray in his name and see miracles happen. How come we don't hear of people praying in the name of Mohammed and seeing miracles happen. Ask your Iman that one.

Anyway discussions like this lead nowhere

Um... paraclete, I never said this is what Islam believes. This is what I have believed, from a young age. Islam does not believe how I do about Jesus.

Please do not be rude again. If you don't want to be part of the discussion, that is fine. Don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Of course Islam mentions Jesus more than any other person in their writings, They accept his virgin birth and most of the things he did. With the exception of his death and being raised again.

My comparison of his coming in the last day, would reflect to the Islam believe of the Angel of Light ( sorry if I get this wrong slightly) that will come again on or near the end of mankind.

And yes I follow, which is the Christian teaching in all but a few groups, is that Jesus, is and was part of God, That God is not a person and does not have limits. It is only our minds which can not understand how God can be in all places, part of all things but yet still be God.

We are told in the bible, that the only way to God the Father is though Jesus, he is the gate ( for lack of a better term) It was his death, by taking our sin on his self that allows this to happen.

I totally agree that God is not a person and has no limits. But I don't believe Jesus is PART of God. Nor is he God. I believe he was a sinless human being sent BY God, to teach us, lead us to God, Guide us as a sheperd, etc.

Also, I believe that I may be way off, or you may be way off, or EVERYONE may be way off and NO ONE has the right answer yet. I believe we may never know for SURE until we stand before Him and can ask him directly lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I believe God is one Being but is also three Persons -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The only way my mind can begin to wrap itself around that is by thinking that I can also be three persons in one being -- I am a daughter, a mother, and a wife, yet all of those are that unique being known as Carol.

I believe Jesus was God the Son, God here on earth. He was human but also divine for those 33 or so years. (No, no one can explain how those two natures were mixed inside him.)

Jesus, as a human, did not do anything wrong at all when he lived on earth, and that's why God the Father accepted his perfect sacrifice for the rest of us who aren't perfect.

This is where it gets confusing lol (for other people, I understand what I'm trying to say but its hard for me to make others see what I mean)

I DO believe That christ is part of the trinity (I don't call it that but that's the best way to explain it) I believe it is more like the Egg. You have the shell, the white, the yolk. EACH part is the egg. But the yolk is NOT the white, the White is NOT the shell, the shell is not the Yolk, etc. they are not all the same thing. But PART of the same thing.
I believe that God is God. And Christ is Christ, (son of god, FROM god) and they are both PART of the holy spirit. But they are not each the SAME thing.

Please tell me I explained that well! LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenniepepsi

Please tell me i explained that well! LOL

I was always told it's like an apple -- the skin, the flesh, and the core -- all different parts of something called "apple," but each one distinct and with its own purpose, its own function. Same for God the Creator, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit -- all called God, but with different purposes or functions.

That does kind of make sense. But the apple doesn't explain my belief either. Mmm...

How about this I just thought of it. Maybe it will make sense.

Think of an easter basket. God has the basket. You have the holy spirit, which is the gift in the basket. And you have jesus who is the basket, BRINGING us the gift from God, which is the holy spirit.

But, the basket is not God. God HOLDS the basket. And sends us the basket.

Does that help?

So with that example, God is separate from Jesus who is separate from the Holy Spirit?

Mmmm... no that doesn't make sense either does it lol.

I guess the best way to say it is how I said it before, God is God, Jesus is Jesus (not God) they are BOTH part of the holy spirit.

What do you consider is the Spirit's function?

The spirit to me is the love of God. The peace of heaven, the wish, and desire that God has for all of us. That probably makes even less sense :P

That's what it IS, but does it DO anything?

In mainstream Christianity, the Holy Sprint brings a person to faith in God and helps him stay in that faith, even if there are challenges to his faith and wellbeing.

Yes :) yay we are on the same page :P lol.

But who brings the holy spirit to us? The holy spirit brings us to God. Jesus is the shepherd, who leads us to the holy spirit, and shows us, and teaches us how to reach it.

Did you ever read the book, The Shack? It was very popular a few years ago.

Amazon.com: The Shack: Where Tragedy Confronts Eternity (9780964729230): William P. Young: Books

Another analogy of God, by the way, is water = gas or liquid or ice

I think you need to read The Shack. It explains the relationship between God,Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in terms you might be able to grasp. Your confusion stems from your upbringing and not being taught the total relationship of the Trinity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

I think you need to read The Shack. It explains the relationship between God,Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in terms you might be able to grasp. Your confusion stems from your upbringing and not being taught the total relationship of the Trinity.

The Shack is fiction. I stick to the Bible which is the Word of God

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

The Shack is fiction. I stick to the Bible which is the Word of God

You don't ever read any Bible historical fiction? The Robe? Books by Joseph Girzone? The Left Behind series?

God is in you. Why don't you concentrate real hard on hearing what God wants you to do? Once God knows you really want it, you will hear from him. There is no one here that can make that happen, but you.