Here's the deal... I am going to be adding a shower to an existing 1/2 bath in my basement.

The toilet is vented up out of the slab on the other side of the wall,in my utility closet, makes about a 4' run into another wall where it ties into the lav. /washing machines' drain.

the lav./washing machine waste pipe exits this same wall and is tied into the main stack at a 4X2 fitting and the vent pipe continues up that wall and I assume ties into the main vent at a higher, unseen piont.

Now for my question... I am going to be jackhammering the slab the opposite side of the toilet than my utility closet... where should I head with the showers drain... the closet flange?. can I tie it in on that short, straight run from the closet flange to the main line? Or at it's elbow... Is the venting for this group designed so I can add this shower without it's own vent.

One more question... my washing machine has one of those high speed pumps and if I don't keep it's waste line cleaned out the washing machine's waste water sometines will back up into the sink when it dumps. I also get those dreaded toilet moans from this 1/2 baths toilet when the washer dumps.. If that waste line isn't completely cleared and I put the shower stall in will the water back up into that also?

thanks for your help...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

Here's the deal.......I am going to be adding a shower to an existing 1/2 bath in my basement.

The toilet is vented up out of the slab on the other side of the wall,in my utility closet, makes about a 4' run into another wall where it ties into the lav. /washing machines' drain.

the lav./washing machine waste pipe exits this same wall and is tied into the main stack at a 4X2 fitting and the vent pipe continues up that wall and I assume ties into the main vent at a higher, unseen piont.

Now for my question...I am going to be jackhammering the slab the opposit side of the toilet than my utility closet....where should I head with the showers drain....the closet flange?........can I tie it in on that short, straight run from the closet flange to the the main line? or at it's elbow...Is the venting for this group designed so I can add this shower without it's own vent.

One more question........my washing machine has one of those high speed pumps and if I don't keep it's waste line cleaned out the washing machine's waste water sometines will back up into the sink when it dumps. I also get those dreaded toilet moans from this 1/2 baths toilet when the washer dumps.. If that waste line isn't completely cleared and I put the shower stall in will the water back up into that also?

thanks for your help..........

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You've given us all the information we need except telling us which direction the drains run. Is the toilet upstream or down stream from the lav/washer.
You may tie the shower drain upstream from the toilet in the main drain or into the lavatory drain and be wet vented by either installation.
You ask, "if I don't keep it's waste line cleaned out the washing machine's waste water sometines will back up into the sink when it dumps. If that waste line isn't completely cleared and I put the shower stall in will the water back up into that also?"
You can do the math on this question. If your washer can back water up 2 feet off the floor to fill the lavatory when it discharges just think what's going to come out of a shower drain at floor level?
My advice? Find another drain line to cut into and run a separate vent for the shower or just fotget about it. You just setting up a problem if you do it your way. Sorry I couldn't be more supportive. Tom

Ok...

About the lav/washer waste:

The lav/washing machine are run into the main line above the slab at a "y"... with the vent from the toilet coming out of the slab on the other side of the waste and tied into it.


The toilets waste is tied into the main line below the lav/washer, under the slab. it's that smaller lav./washer drain that can't handle the washers discharge if slightly restricted...


As for the shower placement in relation to the toilet and it's waste:


The toilet waste runs left (when standing in front of the toilet) to the main line... I will be installing the shower on the right side of the toilet... how do I go about tieing into the toilet line...

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1st pic is the lav/washer line into the main waste
2nd pic is toilet vent coming out of slab... and coming over toward the lav/washer waste line/vent.( you can just make out where the lav/washer to main line joint is in the lower right)

(if I can get them to post... )

Thanks also for all your help and fast response.

Ok.. after some reading and searching here (what a great site)...
I understand this...

"Code forbids you to discharge a major fixture, (such as a toilet) past a unvented minor one, (such as your shower) You MUST do one of two things.
If you tie into the toilet main you must run a individual vent for the shower, or, you can tie the vent into the lavatory drain and the shower will wet vent through the lavatory vent."
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Seeing as I can't tie into the lav watse line (it being above ground and on an opposite wall of where the shower is going... )... can I do either of these??

Tie in the shower between the toilet and the main waste line and then run a vent for the shower back into the toilets vent at a level above the toilet (which also goes on to tie into the lav vent)

Or could I extend the toilet waste line past the toilet, replacing the toilets' elbow with some type of "t" and hook the shower up after the toilet , so the toilet doesn't discharge past the showers?

Would the shower then be vented with the toilet? Or would I still need a separate vent for the shower (in which case, again, can I then tie the new shower vent into the toilets vent above the toilets hight somewhere down the line?)


Thanks again for all your help...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

Ok..after some reading and searching here (what a great site).......
I understand this.....

"Code forbids you to discharge a major fixture, (such as a toilet) past a unvented minor one, (such as your shower) You MUST do one of two things.
If you tie into the toilet main you must run a individual vent for the shower, or, you can tie the vent into the lavatory drain and the shower will wet vent through the lavatory vent."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seeing as I can't tie into the lav watse line (it being above ground and on an opposite wall of where the shower is going.....)....can I do either of these???

(1) Tie in the shower between the toilet and the main waste line and then run a vent for the shower back into the toilets vent at a level above the toilet (which also goes on to tie into the lav vent)

(2) Or could I extend the toilet waste line past the toilet, replacing the toilets' elbow with some type of "t" and hook the shower up after the toilet , so the toilet doesn't discharge past the showers?.

Would the shower then be vented with the toilet?? or would I still need a seperate vent for the shower (in which case, again, can I then tie the new shower vent into the toilets vent above the toilets hight somewhere down the line?)


thanks again for all your help........

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First off. Toilets are self venting and don't require separate vents. But if you can go along with door #1 and revent back to the lavatory vent then your shower would be vented.
You ask, " Would the shower then be vented with the toilet?? or would I still need a seperate vent for the shower (in which case, again, can I then tie the new shower vent into the toilets vent above the toilets hight somewhere down the line?"
No the shower would not be vented with the toilet. You may revent back to the "toilet vent" if you're sure nothing else is discharging into it. However, the safest way to vent would be to utilize the lavatory vent. Best of luck Tom

OK, thanks for all the help with my confusing questions... I think I got it now though...

Do you have any guess as to what that 2" pipe that comes out of the slab with a rise of about 48" that then runs over to the lav vent does, or what it's venting? (as seen in the second picture) The toilet is on the other side of the wall to the right.


I am sure once I break up the slab I will figure it out, just wanted to avoid a surprise.

Thanks again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

ok, thanks for all the help with my confusing questions...I think I got it now though........

do you have any guess as to what that 2" pipe that comes out of the slab with a rise of about 48" that then runs over to the lav vent does, or what it's venting? (as seen in the second picture) The toilet is on the other side of the wall to the right.


I am sure once I break up the slab I will figure it out, just wanted to avoid a surprise.

thanks again........

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Are you asking about the pipe raising out of the floor and elbowing back into the horizontal pipe? You are going to bust up the floor for the answer to that one. Now I have a few questions. What is the copper pipe running through the picture at a 45 degree angle? The horizontal pipe, does it start at the lavatory? Where does it go when it runs through the wall? I can tell you why the discharge from the washer backs up in your lavatory. For openers, hair, soap and fiber from the washer is a combination that's guaranteed to clog sooner or later. Add to that the " dogleg" that lines up the drain with the cast iron wye and you have a back up just waiting to happen. Your washer pump discharges with great volume and pressure, when it hits the dogleg it builds back up into your lavatory. Let me know what you find after you take up the floor. Cheers, Tom

Ok... this is too funny... (I got the house this way)... but that 45degree copper pipe is the supply line to the toilet on the other side of that wall on the right... I would have never run that pipe like that, but maybe that's just me

That's why I thought that that 2" pipe (copper also that some previous owner found nessisary to paint) was the vent for the toilet... it comes out of the floor, runs horizontal and when it gets to the wall it connects to the vent for the lav/ and washer waste... (you can see where the lav and washer waste connect at the wall before it gets to that cast iron wye below it)


Thanks for all your help... I am starting to understand a little better... but I'm surprised I haven't confused you yet...

Thanks for all your help... I am starting to understand a little better... but I'm surprised I haven't confused you yet...

Oh! I'm confused OK. I'm just trying like hell not to show it. All kidding aside I seen lots worse hookups. Cheers, Tom

Just one last question...

That horazontal 2" pipe that leads to the lav vent... that was what I was planing on taping into for the shower vent... once I find out what it's hooked up to... is that OK...




The shower base will be here late next week... once it comes in I'll pull up the carpet/ old vinyl flooring and see what I might find... someone might have filled in a dap out for a shower so they can finish off the floor, for all I know, and that's the vent for it. (wouldn't that be a great surprise.. :D

I'm sure once I get jackhammering I will have a few more questions, until then, thanks once again for you time and expertise guys... so glad I found this site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

Just one last question.........

that horazontal 2" pipe that leads to the lav vent..........that was what I was planing on taping into for the shower vent......once I find out what it's hooked up to...is that ok.....




The shower base will be here late next week.......once it comes in I'll pull up the carpet/ old vinyl flooring and see what I might find.........someone might have filled in a dap out for a shower so they can finish off the floor, for all I know, and that's the vent for it. (wouldn't that be a great surprise.. :D

I'm sure once I get jackhammering I will have a few more questions, until then, thanks once again for you time and expertise guys.........so glad I found this site.

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If that line coming out of the floor vents the lavatory, then you may tie the shower drain to that and not have to run a separate vent. But make very sure it's not a drain for something else. Let me know what you find. Tom

I'll let you know what I find... I won't be starting the rip until the shower base comes in, I expect it by the 13th and should start the rip early the following week..


Thanks again for helping me understand what I need to do to keep it flowing (so to speak) :D

OK... after having to wait for the new pan to come in I finally jackhammered the slab today... Indeed that 2" pipe comming out of the slab and connecting to the lav vent is the toilets vent.....

that being said, I take it from what you said earlier, I can tie the shower drain to that vent and not have to run a seperate vent?....And if I were to do that and I have an unlikely (or as it usually goes un timely) toilet back up, will that cause a back up in the shower drain as well? Or is that not something I need to worry about and just tie it in to that toilet vent and call it a day.....

I ask because the toilets vent is between the closet ell and the main stack.....would this be called "discharging a major fixture past a minor"?

Thanks again for all your help... and the time you take from your own life to help us out..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

ok......after having to wait for the new pan to come in I finally jackhammered the slab today.....Indeed that 2" pipe comming out of the slab and connecting to the lav vent is the toilets vent.....

that being said, I take it from what you said earlier, I can tie the shower drain to that vent and not have to run a seperate vent?....And if I were to do that and I have an unlikely (or as it usually goes un timely) toilet back up, will that cause a back up in the shower drain as well? Or is that not something I need to worry about and just tie it in to that toilet vent and call it a day.....

I ask because the toilets vent is between the closet ell and the main stack.....would this be called "discharging a major fixture past a minor"?

thanks again for all your help....and the time you take from your own life to help us out..

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"I ask because the toilets vent is between the closet ell and the main stack.....would this be called "discharging a major fixture past a minor"?"
Not if you're tying the shower to a dry vent. If the toilet backs up anywhere but in the bowl the water will back up in the lowest drain. That's just the way things are. Regards, Tom

Here's what I ended up doing...

Just wanted to be sure it's OK... before I burry it... the copper pipe the pvc is fernco'ed to ties into the lav vent and nothing else uses this as a drain...

Again thanks for all your help... I like to try and do things right... the first time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PTflyer

here's what I ended up doing.........

Just wanted to be sure it's ok...before I burry it.......the copper pipe the pvc is fernco'ed to ties into the lav vent and nothing else uses this as a drain.......

again thanks for all your help.....I like to try and do things right........the first time.

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Looks good to me. Congratulations on figuring it out. Tom

Tom,
Thanks again for all your help... have a great holiday weekend...

Just one last question...

That horazontal 2" pipe that leads to the lav vent... that was what I was planing on taping into for the shower vent... once I find out what it's hooked up to... is that OK...

Would that be for the shower drain or the vent that that you plan on tying into the lav vent?

Well... the vent pipe that is coming out of the waste pipe for the toilet leads to and connects to the lavs' vent... I put a "T" there and ran the line from the new shower into the "t" thinking that would drain as well as tie into the lav vent in one shot...

Is that correct... (see pics in a couple of my post above this one of what I did... I hope it's right... please let me know because I plan on filling in the trench tomorrow...


Thanks again...
Peter

Shrug... I guess it's good to go :confused:

Guess I can pour the cement.. well... I hope it's OK, anyway.