I am 21 yo and living in Ontario Canada. I have recently been arrested for theft. Here's what I did.

I used to work at a pay day advance place, where they load up cards for the amount of money they are lending to you. I took a card for myself and loaded it from home($2000). Then proceeded to the bank to withdraw the money from the card. 3 weeks later 2 officers came to my door and placed me under arrest for credit card fraud. They took me down to the station and told me what I was all being charged with... (Theft under $5000, Credit Card Fraud, Theft of a Credit Card... ) They then let me leave with a Promise to Appear for court on Nov 14th 2006. I do not have a criminal record. This will be the first time I have done anything wrong. I am curious to what I am looking at being sentenced. I feel stupid for doing it now and wish I could take it back.

For Anyone Who Can Help Me Please

The 'Promise to appear' is not a to determine your sentence. It is for you to plead guilty or 'not guilty'. I personally would avoid going if I was in your situation.

I say AVOID GOING not GO! Let me explain...

If you have money or if you can get a public defender- get one. You should be a good candidate for the 'Alternate Measures Program'.

This is a program whereby an individual admits responsibility, is interviewed and is asked to either perform Community Service or something of that nature and perhaps there is a monetary ingredient; once it is completed, the charge is withdrawn. This is usually a very excellent result as there is no criminal record and the matter is ended.

This is a viable option for you and you should do this before the court date.

I looked into the Alternate Measures Program, and they said I can not do it. Any Other Ideas?

Who said they won't do it? Get a lawyer that will do it. Phone around. Did you give a statement to the officers?

I don't know if its just me, but stealing from work doesn't sound criminal. I mean, if I take something out of my office, I don't ask for permission. And if my intension is to return it, it's not stealing. So if I am caught in possession of office equipment, even though I'm not in the office, I'm not stealing it!

I think a good lawyer should get it dropped to 'theft under $5000' and get you into the Alternate Measures program.

But when you steal 2000 from a workplace in cash... which is what I basically did... I would consider that theft

You stole from the credit card company.

The only thing from work was a piece of plastic. Does that mean someone can search my place, find a work pen and charge me for stealing? I think not (or we'd all be criminals).

The fraud charge indicates that you used someone else's name. If you know their name, you can visit them, tell the story, say your sorry and perhaps they will drop the charge. I would if you used my name. Of course, you'll have to pay back the $2000. It's worth a try.

Now your down to one charge.

First, from what I've read of the program BH mentioned, its designed to help first offenders who commit a crime on the spur of the moment. This was not the case with you. You planned this theft. Its also possible that the fraud charges are what is making this program unavailable to you.

Second, I totally disagree with BH as to the severity of the crime. This is not a situation where you took home a box of pencils. This is embezzlement (I'm surprised you wheren't charged with that). Its also fraud. Its also a planned crime as noted.

You NEED an attorney. It sounds to me like that have you dead to rights. But an attorney can wade through that. Your best bet seems to be a plea bargain down to a lesser charge and that might be predicated on full reimbursement.

Your position to handle and distribute credit cards put you in a situation that many would consider free money. It should have been available to bondable persons only. It is no different than my daughter finding my credit card in the mail and using it...

Yes, she would be a criminal. But I would have the ability to drop all charges. It is not carefully planned, it is an opertunist crime- just a lousy piece of plastic. And restitution is a greater penalty than a conviction.

Just ask Enron investors if they would prefer CEO's to pay restitution or jail?

ScottGem is not Canadian and would rather have revenge and die poor!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Your position to handle and distribute credit cards put you in a situation that many would consider free money. It should have been available to bondable persons only. It is no different than my daughter finding my credit card in the mail and using it...

Yes, she would be a criminal. But I would have the ability to drop all charges. It is not carefully planned, it is an opertunist crime. And restitution is a greater penalty than a conviction.

Just ask Enron investors if they would prefer CEO's to pay restitution or jail?

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You are not doing the OP any favors by telling him he can shift the blame or minimizing his crime. This was a planned embezzlement. He stole a significant amount of cash from an employer who trusted him. There is a saying, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. The OP's best bet is to hire an attorney who can work out the best deal for him.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Get a lawyer that will do it.

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I already said that on my second response. Pay attention!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

I already said that on my second response. Pay attention!!

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I noted that you had given that advice. That still doesn't change that the rest of your advice was pretty bad. As I said, you are making light of what is actually a serious crime here. In doing so, you are not doing the OP any favors.

When I get arrested, I look at all possibilities. The OP has done nothing that many other non-criminals have done. That's a BIG reason (reasonable doubt) why I have always been acquitted.

So I guess all those e-bayer's that take my money from my credit card and don't go through with the transaction are all criminals, eh? I see no difference between that and this case. That's the OP's best chance to minimize his situation. Guilty, but not as guilty as many other people!

Unlike my US conterparts, Canada may have more criminals on the streets, but we have fewer innocent people behind bars!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

When I get arrested, I look at all possibilities. The OP has done nothing that many other non-criminals have done. That's a BIG reason (reasonable doubt) why I have always been aquitted,

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Hmm you make it sound like getting arrested is a frequent occurrence. Maybe the reasonyou have laways been acquitted is better planning.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

So I guess all those e-bayer's that take my money from my credit card and don't go through with the transaction are all criminals, eh? I see no difference between that and this case. That's the OP's best chance to minimize his situation. Guilty, but not as guilty as many other people!!

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Yes, if they are offering merchandise, then take your money without providing the merchandise, then they are criminals. That is fraud. It would appear they plan to commit fraud by offering items for sale that they can't deliver.

So do you tell such people that its not their fault since E-Bay gave them a venue to commit their fraud?

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Unlike my US conterparts, Canada may have more criminals on the streets, but we have fewer innocent people behind bars!!

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And what statistics do you have to support that? I'm not sure, but I don't believe that Canada has the same presumption of innocence that the US judicial system has.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Hmm you make it sound like getting arrested is a frequent occurrence. Maybe the reasonyou have laways been acquitted is better planning.

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Two times is frequent enough. No planning, just too many revengefull people that think they are above the law. People that sound similar to you.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Yes, if they are offering merchandise, then take your money without providing the merchandise, then they are criminals. That is fraud. It would appear they plan to commit fraud by offering items for sale that they can't deliver.

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Or perhaps an innocent mistake in communications or delivery??

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

And what statistics do you have to support that? I'm not sure, but I don't believe that Canada has the same presumption of innocence that the US judicial system has.

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The Alternate Dispute Measures that reduces court loads and sympathizes that a second chance doesn't have to be money dependent!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Two times is frequent enough. No planning, just too many revengefull people that think they are above the law. People that sound similar to you.

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First, I have NO idea how you get that I sound like I think I'm above the law. I have said nothing in this or any thread that would give that impression. I always try to keep my responses to the facts posted and not to resort to baseless personal attacks.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Or perhaps an innocent mistake in communications or delivery???

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YOU set up the scenario here. You stated; "So I guess all those e-bayer's that take my money from my credit card and don't go through with the transaction are all criminals". The scenario was taking money and not providing the service. I took this to mean never providing the merchandise or service and referred to people who deliberately do that. Of course there might be just a glitch in the delivery process, but that would be resolved at some point.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

The Alternate Dispute Measures that reduces court loads and sympathizes that a second chance doesn't have to be money dependant!!

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I didn't say it had to be, but I do think that intent does play a role in its usage. And that's my point here. The situation we were presented with is one where a planned theft was made. Even after the card was stolen, it still didn't have to be used. But it was stolen, money added to it, then the card was cashed. At any step of the way the decision could have been made to abort the theft. But it wasn't.

Just as my first arrest for tresspassing, you have picked the wrong time, wrong place with the wrong person to bring this up.

My motto is, 'there are many slips between a cup and a lip'.

I haven't a clue what that last response means. I stand by what I've said here.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

ScottGem is not Canadian and would rather have revenge and die poor!!

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Hello:

The advice my friend Scott is offering here, is excellent. In my view, when facing the criminal justice system, it's always better to expect (and prepare for) the worst, and then hope for the best. That way, only good news can happen.

That attitude should prevail, whether in Canada or in the US. I don't disagree that in Canada, the good news is more likely to happen. But, that isn't the point. Again in my view, it does not serve anyone charged with a crime to tell them they face the minimum. Indeed, I've faced the minimum a few times, only to be disappointed with the maximum.

Beyond that, bhayne suggests that the advice Scott gives here, is somehow aimed at achieving retribution for society, rather than for the benefit of the OP. Not only is that not true on its face, given the available data right here, it's insulting. She should apologize.

excon

Simple advice: go talk with a lawyer.

And no matter what some users on here are saying, do not MISS your court date. That will be the WORSE thing you can do.

Scottgem is absolutely right. Behayne is dead wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Your position to handle and distribute credit cards put you in a situation that many would consider free money. It should have been available to bondable persons only. It is no different than my daughter finding my credit card in the mail and using it...

Yes, she would be a criminal. But I would have the ability to drop all charges. It is not carefully planned, it is an opertunist crime- just a lousy piece of plastic. And restitution is a greater penalty than a conviction.

Just ask Enron investors if they would prefer CEO's to pay restitution or jail?

ScottGem is not Canadian and would rather have revenge and die poor!!

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1. temptation isn't an excuse. Not being bonded is not an excuse. Employment at a pay day loan place doesn't consitute an attractive nusiance type situation.
2. of course you could decide not to pursue charges if the defendant was your daughter. But why on earth would a company decide to forgo charges? Give the company the $2,000.00 you took as well as interest and hope for the best.
I think investors would prefer to be repaid as well as see the enron ceos go to jail.
4. what does "scottgem is not canadian and would rather have revenge and die poor!!" mean? That scottgem is a fool to refuse to engage in money making scams and thefts, and thus be poor?

In canada there is the presumption of innocence.

Finally, good luck with the case. At least you have the fact that pay day loan places are considered usurious daylight robbers behind you.