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    chuff's Avatar
    chuff Posts: 3,397, Reputation: 1235
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    #21

    Jan 21, 2007, 05:18 PM
    Canada , Japan, Australia, Great Britain are all Western civilized countries with modern technologies and ways of life. Why do people (from America) always assume they have to stay here. It's easier to get anywhere in the world than it's ever been.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #22

    Jan 24, 2007, 04:41 PM
    When asked about the dying Bush said it is totally a volunteer army.
    educatedhorse_2005's Avatar
    educatedhorse_2005 Posts: 500, Reputation: 78
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    #23

    Jan 24, 2007, 09:07 PM
    Sense this is a free country I am not going to knock what anybody else say on this post.

    My opnion on the subject are if you don't like move out.
    I have the utmost faith in this country. I have two brothers in iraq and will support my country to the very end.

    It is when you lose faith in something when all hope is lost. If you lose all hope you might as well give up and die. I for one will never give up. I just hope that there are others like me.

    I love knowing that I can have my own opnion and not get shoot for it.
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    #24

    Jan 25, 2007, 01:41 AM
    There is a difference in supporting the troops. To supporting the country. There should be not anybody supporting a country that purposely targets other countries and interferes in there wars. The government, the government that runs the country. The people of the country puts there faith in the wrong place.

    Faith is meant to be in God, not a country.

    Just my opinion. I get annoyed at people who think they need to support and have faith in there country when there country is responsible for the deaths of so many people from other countries, but also responsible for so many deaths of their own people.

    They do not care about your brothers, the government does not care. They are doing it for their own gain. Oil and money.

    We need to support your brothers and anybody that go over their, but we do not have to support the country or the government.

    It is good that you have your own opinion. Please do not take it that I am shooting you for it. I just have a different way of looking at it. Hope you do not take it personally.

    Joe
    educatedhorse_2005's Avatar
    educatedhorse_2005 Posts: 500, Reputation: 78
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    #25

    Jan 25, 2007, 02:56 AM
    I see it as.
    Though I do not support the government in all its decisions I need to support the ones that are trying to keep my brothers safe.
    Yes I would like my brothers home but as long as they are in harms way I will support the decisions of the government to keep them safe.

    If this means that I need to support bushes new plan or whatever I will. Because I now that If the government quits supporting are troops my brothers are dead.
    I look at how people the us left in vietnam and I do not want that to happen again
    Tuscany's Avatar
    Tuscany Posts: 1,049, Reputation: 229
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    #26

    Jan 25, 2007, 06:41 AM
    I think that it is important that you have faith in America and faith in our troops. But when I say faith in America I mean faith in the people that live here. Faith that they will use their democratic powers to change what they don't like about the current administration, faith in the support that they show their troops, faith that this war will end.

    I see the country and the government as 2 different things. When the Towers in NYC were attacked our country was attacked. Not the government. Innocent people, people who reside in a country, who love their country, who rely on their government to keep them safe. It is not the country that is failing us... it is the government.
    chippers's Avatar
    chippers Posts: 440, Reputation: 88
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    #27

    Jan 25, 2007, 07:18 AM
    I am not only an American but the wife of an army soldier who just returned from Iraq. Although I agree with most of the points of view here and respect everyone's right to express them. We are forgetting the big picture here.
    Regardless of what we think or do, Pres. Bush will not admit defeat and pull the troops out as he should. Even when hell freezes over will he admit that. And that's a pitty. After 9/11 the way he showed the country support and strength, he shoed he had potential to be a good president. With the Iraq contriversy, he's beyond redemption in the eyes of his "fellow americans). (a term which sends shivers down my spine becuae it reminds me of former Pres. Nixon)
    The protests over Iraq also bring back bad memories for me because of how my fathr was treated after he returned from Vietnam. A war that too was greatly protested. Mass opinion of the war labeled our brave soldiers as baby burners and women killers. (I was 7 years old when he returned and still remember those hateful words wringing in my ears)
    My point is regardless of how we feel about the war, or the presedient, the soldiers over there fighting should be our main focus. They are there out of duty to our country regardless of how we or any one else feels. Its not really the war they are fighting over there but serviing our country. Some even giving their lives for our country. The bravest of the brave in my opinion.
    I believe, as well as a lot of otheres that you can support the soldiers without supporting the war. Let them know that what they're doing as the serve our country has a great impact on the people here waiting for their safe return
    Send cards, emails, care packages. Let them know we love and think about them everyday.
    I once sent my husband a box of cards and letters my kids' classes wrote them and pictures. The soldiers answered EVERY one of them and kept the pictures as a reminder of home. Trust me it really imapcts them when they know we support them.
    Try not to think badly about the war but the welfare of the men fighting it. So, soldiers like my father come home not as criminals but as heroes.

    Please also, please don't base your opinion of all americans based on our commander in chief.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #28

    Jan 25, 2007, 07:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by educatedhorse_2005
    If this means that I need to support bushes new plan or whatever I will. Because I now that If the government quits supporting are troops my brothers are dead.....

    I look at how people the us left in vietnam and I do not want that to happen again
    Hello horse:

    Wow! If they quit supporting them and just left them, then they'd be dead. But, the idea is to quit supporting the WAR, and bring your brothers HOME. Seems to me, they'd be a LOT safer here.

    And, what did we do to the people in Vietnam? WE did nothing, except give 58,000 of our young boys for NO REASON. When we left, the south lost the civil war, that they would have lost 10 years earlier, had we not butted in.

    Yes, the northern victors put the southerners in jail. Ok, if the south (us) had won, don't you think WE would have put the northerners in jail? I think we would have.

    Nonetheless, Vietnam is a peaceful place today. The disaster that awaited us, should we have lost that war (which we did), NEVER happened.

    Tell Bush to send your brothers to kill Al Qaida in Afghanistan. That's a GOOD war. Those people ACTUALLY attacked us.

    excon
    KMSRyana's Avatar
    KMSRyana Posts: 142, Reputation: 26
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    #29

    Jan 25, 2007, 09:01 AM
    Again I post a query to those reading and participating in this thread... Do you not see that the focus of terrorist groups and anti-Americans is now in the Middle East and not here? I'm not supporting the war there, or the reasons that we were given for it being valid. I just wonder if anyone else sees that the insurgents attacking our troops and civilians over there aren't just Iraqis. They come from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen... there's more too, but you might get where I'm going with this. If our troops were not there, is it possible that these people might just get together to bring the fight to our soil as they did in 2000?

    Just a thought and I wonder what others think along those lines.
    chuff's Avatar
    chuff Posts: 3,397, Reputation: 1235
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    #30

    Jan 29, 2007, 01:14 PM
    Well I'm sure most of you heard about the big "peace" march on Washington this past weekend.

    The march was lead by a group that calls itself "United for Peace and Justice." The march included several of the usual "America is always wrong" crowd including communist Jane Fonda and of course Sean Penn. The same Sean Penn that flew to Iraq before the war started and came back to tell us that Sadaam was a great guy and we were not educated enough to know it. I wonder if the brought his own camera crew like he did when he pretended to help Hurricane Katrina victims for the media publicity?

    Anyway, The lovers of peace and people of great tolerance who claim to be of such high class that us southern rednecks (and anyone else from the north or east or west who dare point out their inconsistancies) can't truly grasp themselves awareness and total respect they have for human life showed up with the usual flag draped caskets and have now added boots on top for a nice touch. These lovers of peace and people who always claim to love American when called on their hate spray painted graffiti on the U.S. Capitol building. These lovers of peace who support the troops unless those troops are dead and having their genitals stuck in their mouth (which really did happen and I saw no outrage) or he is the commandor in chief, which ironically enough makes him one of the troops but we'll overlook that, spit on Iraqi war veterans who dared show up and use the freedom of speech they actually fought for. One Iraqi war veteran named Joshua Sparling lost part of his leg in the war, yet get this, still is proud to be an American, and really get this, still supports the war. While he was there and some kind, well respected, person of love and tolerance walked away from the main protest and spit at him. Naturally, cops were standing right there and did not arrest Mr. peacenick. Like I said before, I truly hate living in this country.
    BananaPie's Avatar
    BananaPie Posts: 59, Reputation: 7
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    #31

    Feb 1, 2007, 08:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by KMSRyana
    Again I post a query to those reading and participating in this thread... Do you not see that the focus of terrorist groups and anti-Americans is now in the Middle East and not here? I'm not supporting the war there, or the reasons that we were given for it being valid. I just wonder if anyone else sees that the insurgents attacking our troops and civilians over there aren't just Iraqis. They come from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen.... there's more too, but you might get where I'm going with this. If our troops were not there, is it possible that these people might just get together to bring the fight to our soil as they did in 2000?

    Just a thought and I wonder what others think along those lines.
    It really makes no difference where they are. They will eventually make their way to the U.S. again anyway. Obviously, we can't stop them and their ideals are only becoming stronger because of this situation.

    No, they aren't just Iraqis. What's more, these folks are not the dumb, backward-thinking religious zealots people think they are. Most of them are very highly educated religious zealots from respectable middle eastern (and other) families.
    John1865's Avatar
    John1865 Posts: 27, Reputation: -1
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    #32

    Feb 2, 2007, 08:36 AM
    We are the “top dog”, and everyone wants a piece of the action and to knock us off the hill. Is Bush right or wrong? The answer is he is both right and wrong, as all presidents have been throughout history. Look at some of the wars and battles we have fought:

    Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, Civil war, Mexican American war, Spanish American war, Indian wars, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Libya, Desert 1, Panama, Balkans, Somalia, Afghanistan, Desert 2 – the list goes on and on, and will continue no matter who is president.

    Americans really don’t care what the rest of the world thinks. We do what is best for our national interest. I think it’s best to fight the bad guys in another county and not ours; just as we have in most wars. Do the Canadians like it, probably not? Do the Iraqis like it, definitely not? However, I don’t have to worry much about my children playing outside, because the war is somewhere else.

    It is clear to me the war is over there. As long as the war is over there, it is not over here. Don’t forget what Albert Einstein once said, “As long as there are men, there will be wars.”

    Will we win the war? The answer is we already have!

    I’m proud to be an American!!
    RickJ's Avatar
    RickJ Posts: 7,762, Reputation: 864
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    #33

    Feb 2, 2007, 08:52 AM
    I am proud to be an American.
    I am ashamed that we went to Iraq.
    I am equally ashamed that so many Americans are unfamiliar with how things work.

    EVERYONE who voted to go to Iraq is equally responsible. The evidence was not there, so the vote should have been NO.

    Here are the Yea's and the Nay's:
    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote
    Allheart's Avatar
    Allheart Posts: 1,639, Reputation: 436
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    #34

    Feb 2, 2007, 09:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by John1865
    I’m proud to be an American!!!

    Sure put a smile on my face. Standing proud with you !
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #35

    Feb 2, 2007, 09:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by John1865
    It is clear to me the war is over there. As long as the war is over there, it is not over here......
    Will we win the war? The answer is we already have!

    I’m proud to be an American!!!
    Hello John:

    I'm a proud American too. However, that's got nothing to do our ding dong president. He's an aberration, and I hope we'll survive him.

    But John, my friend, this war is not over. It's just beginning. We've got a big mess that we've got to clean up. And, what you say is true. SO FAR, the war is over there (kinda), except for 9/11, the USS Cole, and some of our embassy's around the world. By the way, our embassies are "here" for all intents and purposes.

    And, since we're IN the war, it's quite premature to say it's over there. It's also quite immature to think that it's going to STAY over there. We've only just begun to feel the sting of those terrorists. Hezbollah is HERE right now. Hezbollah is Iran. They're going to do something really really bad, to us RIGHT HERE, and pretty damn soon.

    You think Bush is protecting us?? Bush is selling us down the river. Iran is NOT Iraq.

    excon
    John1865's Avatar
    John1865 Posts: 27, Reputation: -1
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    #36

    Feb 2, 2007, 10:25 AM
    That's my point, the war will never end... It never has! Only the names and places change, and it doesn't matter who is president. It is in our national interest to continue to fight all over the world, just as it always has throughout our history.

    Whenever we think we are at peace, the war ends up on our shores, i.e. 1812, 1941, and 2001. Therefore, it is prudent to continue to project our forces and fight overseas at every opportunity.

    You are right, we will eventually be hit by terrorists on our soil. We are the top dog, they want to hit us. But this will probably happen no matter what we do, or who is president. It might not even be Hezbollah or some other Islamic group, but someone homegrown like McVeigh.

    It is pretty evident that Iran is not Iraq. Immature? So you advocate not fighting because we should be scarred of Hezbollah/Iran? My friend, I would go back in the military from retirement, in a heartbeat to fight Iran. And many of my former comrades in arms would do the same.

    Mark my words, we will fight them sooner or later! It's in our national interest...
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    #37

    Feb 2, 2007, 10:52 AM
    John, I am sorry. I meant to give you a disagree. No You are not top dog. No Your Country is not top dog. That is why Americans especially government are hated world wide because your country especially people like you are arrogant. Pompous. The only reason why there is a war is because the American government is money and power hungrey. What is there. Hmmm oil. If the american government were not so willing to go in and interfering in other countries wars there would be more peace. The american government would not be so much hated around the world, including Canada. So top dog my arse to you. It is all in your head and somebody will knock that right off you if you think that way all the time and live your life that way. It will come back and haunt you.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #38

    Feb 2, 2007, 11:33 AM
    Hello again, John:

    You miss my point, although I thought it was pretty clear. Iran IS, and has been our enemy since they took our embassy in 1979.

    Everything Bush is saying about Iran TODAY is true. The problem is, that he said the same things about Iraq, and they WEREN'T true. We SHOULD believe him. But, because he lied before, nobody believes him now.

    THAT is the failure of BUSH. Iran, our real enemy, is MUCH MUCH stronger, and we're MUCH MUCH weaker. That is a MONUMENTAL failure that could cause your children to grow up speaking Farsi.

    excon
    John1865's Avatar
    John1865 Posts: 27, Reputation: -1
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    #39

    Feb 2, 2007, 12:00 PM
    In fact, I have traveled and lived in many countries in the world proudly displaying the stars and strips... severed 24 years in the United States Air Force. Specifically, I have lived or traveled through Japan, Germany, Hong Kong, Belgium, Panama, England, Egypt, Kuwait, and served in Desert storm.

    This country has liberated millions from tyranny. It's easy to live free in Canada bordered by the greatest and strongest nation ever conceived. Let's see if we can create a short-list of countries freed by the US:

    Philippines, France, Italy, Grenada, Texas, Solomon Islands, Berlin - kept free from Soviets, Britain, Guam, Wake Island, Hong Kong, India, China, Midway Island, New Guinea, Taiwan, Should I just say most of Europe, most of North Africa, all of the pacific to include Australia, parts of Asia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and now Iraq... the list goes on and on.

    What other country can claim such achievements? And these are just military victories. In addition, we send billions of dollars to many countries and have conducted hundreds of humanitarian operations to include airlifts by the military. In 2004 we conducted five airlifts into Darfur.

    These airlifts included 60,000 blankets and 1,260 rolls of plastic sheeting, which is sufficient to provide shelter for 79,380 folks. These shipments, including transportation costs, are totaled $1,065,500. Other airlifts in addition to the $1,941,150 in relief supplies that arrived in Nyala between June 5, 2004 and June 14, 2004 totaled airlifted contribution of $3,006,650 to Darfur.

    There is no end to the list of countries we have helped. I'm sorry you’re jealous! But personally, I really don't care what you think about us. I have received many thanks from folks in the countries I have visited while in uniform.

    Bottom line: The United States is the greatest country ever conceived! We will continue to project our power both economic and military as is in our national interest.
    John1865's Avatar
    John1865 Posts: 27, Reputation: -1
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    #40

    Feb 2, 2007, 12:15 PM
    excon:

    I agree with you in part. Yes, Iran did turn out to be the country we should have confronted militarily. Of course this is looking retrospectively. At the time we went into Iraq, everyone thought they possessed WMD and where the greater threat. Not only did both parties of the US congress agree, but so did our other allies to include Canada and Britain.

    However, I do not agree that we are weaker at least not militarily. Maybe politically...

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