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    HeidiMN's Avatar
    HeidiMN Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 13, 2009, 08:23 PM
    Water hammer, especially with sprinkler system
    I was wondering if anyone might be able to help us with a water hammer problem. We live in a three-year-old house, and we hear a bang downstairs when our faucets in the upstairs bathrooms close and when our washing machine shuts off. Also, when our sprinkler system changes zones, we hear a loud bang. My husband replaced all of the sprinkler valves with "slow closing" valves, but the sound is still there. To fix the inside problem, he's tried draining the system to recharge the air chambers, and he's installed an arrestor or two, but nothing's really worked.

    Does anyone have any ideas, especially for the sprinkler system? Is there a specific way to drain the system to recharge the air chambers? Our sprinkler system does have a backflower preventer, if that affects anything. Thanks for your help!
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #2

    Jun 14, 2009, 01:04 AM

    Sprinkler system should NOT be connected to house plumbing. Water supply should be taken before pressure regulator. If it is, then you won't hear any water hammer caused by sprinkler's solenoid valves.

    You can install Water Hammer Arestor at the sprinkler supply line.

    Also, you may have loose washer or stem in one of your faucets or even loose stem inside one of your angle stops. Close all angle stops and run sprinklers. See if the problem continues.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #3

    Jun 14, 2009, 07:49 AM
    he's tried draining the system to recharge the air chambers,
    That's not exactly how it's done. "Water hammer" happens when you abruptly shut off the water. You have at least 40 pounds of pressure pushing the water flow. The weight of the water hitting a 90 degree bend causes the sound that you hear. We put in air chambers to cushion the hammer much like the shocks on your car.
    Back in the 60's we were required to to put air chambers on all bath lavatories and kitchen sinks. Over time water and condensate built up in them and they must be recharged. First turn off the house at the main house shut off valve. Then open hot and cold faucets at the farthest bathroom to prevent air lock.(This is important.) You will find under each fixture little brass or chrome valves. These are called angle stops. With a small pail held under the angle stop to catch the run off look under the handle of the stop and you will see a nut with the stem running through it. This is called the bonnet packing nut. Put your wrench on it and back it off counterclockwise. Now open the stop and remove the stem and washer assembly, The stop will began to drain. When it has quit draining reassemble the stop and move on to the next one. Do this on each one of your angle stops. There will be six of them in a two bath home. When you are done, close off the faucets you have opened, turn on the water to the house, and give yourself a pat on the back.
    You have just recharged your air chambers and saved yourself a hefty service call bill. Hope this helps you out and thank you for rating my reply. TOM
    HeidiMN's Avatar
    HeidiMN Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Jun 14, 2009, 11:01 AM
    Thank you for your answers and assistance. Milo, what did you mean by "the sprinkler system should not be connected to the house plumbing"? My husband said he only saw the house's supply line to connect to. Is there a way to separate the two? He said we don't have a pressure regulator on it because we have low water pressure (just enough to push the sprinklers up).

    Also, where would you install the water hammer arrester on the sprinkler supply line? (As I mentioned, the sprinkler system is using the houses supply line. We're not sure how to separate the two.) Is there a way to install a metal arrester by each valve?

    Thank you, Milo and Tom, for your assistance!
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #5

    Jun 14, 2009, 11:15 AM

    Sprinkler line should Tee-Off before your main line enters your house. See the pic...

    Also, if you want to install Hammer Arrestor at the sprinkler actuators than install it as shown in the other pic...
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    HeidiMN's Avatar
    HeidiMN Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jun 14, 2009, 01:46 PM
    Thank you for the diagrams, Milo. It turns out our water meter is in the basement, so that's why we didn't tap into the mainline before it reaches the house. Since our water meter is inside, it would appear we can't do anything about connecting to the mainline before it comes inside.

    I took a look at the pipes in the basement, and there's a pipe with a valve that runs outside to a hose bib. When we installed the sprinkler system, we cut into that pipe and ran a new copper pipe off it that goes outside to the sprinkler system. (This new pipe takes a bit of a journey with some bends before it goes outside.) The water hammer appears to be occurring in this pipe near where it hooks into the mainline and possibly in some of the bends. (After hooking into the mainline, it goes up for a bit and then takes a 90 degree turn. It's around the turn where we are really getting the noise.) Would it help to install something inside on this line for water hammer?

    Ironically, the water hammer sound inside our house is also coming from this area, but on the household pipes that connect to the mainline at this point. Should we just install a ton of arresters in this area, and can we put them right on the 90 degree bend somehow? We're thinking about hiring a plumber for this because of the soldering.

    Thanks for your help--I really appreciate it.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #7

    Jun 14, 2009, 02:00 PM

    Is that outside hose valve still there connected to the sprinkler supply line ?

    Manufacturer suggests that Hammer Arestor is installed as close to the fixture that makes noise as possible so no noise travels through pipe. I would suggest to start with one Arrestor and see if it helps at all.
    HeidiMN's Avatar
    HeidiMN Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jun 14, 2009, 02:22 PM
    Thanks for your reply, Milo. Yes, the hose bib is still connected to the sprinkler supply line. Does that affect anything? My husband did put a hose outside on the hose bib and fixed the water hammer temporarily that way (I think by leaving the hose bib open with something on the end of the hose) but I'd like a more permanent solution.

    Tom, I wanted to ask you about your solution to recharge the air chambers. Our home is newer, so I'm not sure if we have air chambers. Would this solution work for the indoor water hammering if we don't have air chambers?

    Thank you for your help, Milo and Tom!
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #9

    Jun 14, 2009, 02:25 PM

    Replace that hose bib with new one...

    Or, remove the hose bib completely and plug the pipe. See if the noise continues...
    HeidiMN's Avatar
    HeidiMN Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jun 14, 2009, 03:31 PM
    Hi Milo,

    Thank you for your suggestion. We were just curious how removing or replacing the hose bib might help. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the hose bib. Thanks!
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #11

    Jun 14, 2009, 04:17 PM

    Hose bib may have loose stem of loose washer. Every time sprinkler closes , rushing water hits it with force producing "bang" sound.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #12

    Jun 14, 2009, 04:29 PM
    Most codes mandate air chambers in new construction. Our code instructs us to chamber the supplies on all lavatories and the kitchen sink. Air chambers are only good plumbing practice, they're to prevent water hammer. I can't conceive of a code that doesn't mandate them. Regards, Tom
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #13

    Jun 14, 2009, 04:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    most codes mandate air chambers in new construction. Our code instructs us to chamber the supplies on all lavatories and the kitchen sink. Air chambers are only good plumbing practice, they're to prevent water hammer. I can't conceive of a code that doesn't mandate them. Regards, tom
    UPC :eek:
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #14

    Jun 14, 2009, 04:55 PM
    UPC? The code that vents everything and won't allow wet vents missed providing for air hammer. Unbelievable!! Is there a reason for this? Or like the rest of UPC they don't need one. Just curious. Tom

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