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nampcy · Jan 20, 2016, 05:52 AM

Hi I am having problems with air in my pipes. I have a artesian well that is 250' deep with a static water level at 30'. When the well was drilled it was estimated by the driller to produce 12gpm... So by his accounts a good well. When we turn on the cold water there is no air bursts but when you fill a glass of water it first appear cloudy then clears from the bottom up in a few seconds.. and you can see it gassing off similar to soda water. The air bursts in the line occur from the hot water tap.. I have talked to a number of well guys in my area and have gotten a number suggestions of what might be the cause of the air buildup... the popular theory is that there might be sulphur gas in the well. We have noticed a certain order to the water and off taste. As there is no where for the gas to escape in the hot water tank only through the pipes . It builds up and thus the air bursts in the hot water line... Because the cold water is pumped directly from the well i.e. no holding tank there is no air build up thus no air burst in the cold water tap. All suggestions on how to remedy this are welcomed.

Thanks

G

jlisenbe · Jan 20, 2016, 07:17 AM

Pump is above ground or in the well?

You don't have a pressure tank?

hkstroud · Jan 20, 2016, 07:28 AM

I'll repeat John's question.

You don't have a pressure tank?

That means your pump comes on each time you open a faucet. That's not good for a pump. The life of an electric motor is determined more by the number of times it starts and stops than how long it runs.

nampcy · Jan 20, 2016, 09:20 AM

Hi Thanks fro the response. Sorry for my lack of knowledge... There is a small blue canister approx. 1 to 2 gallon in size that I am assuming is an air pressure tank bolted on the wall besides the pump driver . Pump is in the ground at a depth of 220'.

Thanks

G

nampcy · Jan 20, 2016, 01:59 PM

Hi Thanks fro the response. Sorry for my lack of knowledge... There is a small blue canister approx. 1 to 2 gallon in size that I am assuming is an air pressure tank bolted on the wall besides the pump driver . Pump is in the ground at a depth of 220'.

Thanks

G

That means your pump comes on each time you open a faucet. That's not good for a pump. The life of an electric motor is determined more by the number of times it starts and stops than how long it runs.[/QUOTE]

Hi Thanks fro the response. Sorry for my lack of knowledge... There is a small blue canister approx. 1 to 2 gallon in size that I am assuming is an air pressure tank bolted on the wall besides the pump driver . Pump is in the ground at a depth of 220'.

Thanks

G

That means your pump comes on each time you open a faucet. That's not good for a pump. The life of an electric motor is determined more by the number of times it starts and stops than how long it runs.[/QUOTE]

hkstroud · Jan 20, 2016, 06:06 PM

1 to 2 gallon in size that I am assuming is an air pressure tank

Never heard of an well tank that small. That sounds more like an expansion tank for the water heater.

Show us photos of that tank and tell us what pipes are connected to it.
Show us the well pump pressure switch. Show us photos of all piping.

jlisenbe · Jan 20, 2016, 08:23 PM

"Never heard of an well tank that small. That sounds more like an expansion tank for the water heater.

Yeah. My thought too, unless this is some type of setup using a booster pump.

How many pipes go into the well, one or two? If one, then check carefully for any small leaks in the wellpipe. Could be drawing some air as it pumps. Also be sure that the footvalve is staying under the water level in the well as that could result is some air being pumped as well.

nampcy · Jan 21, 2016, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yeah. My thought too, unless this is some type of setup using a booster pump.

How many pipes go into the well, one or two? If one, then check carefully for any small leaks in the wellpipe. Could be drawing some air as it pumps. Also be sure that the footvalve is staying under the water level in the well as that could result is some air being pumped as well.

Hi , hard to tell with foot valve as the pump is at 220' and the static water level is at 50. Don't get any air bursts in the cold water just in hot water taps. I had a few well guys look at it. The majority seem to think there is hydrogen sulphide gas in the well. When you pour out a glass of cold water it appears cloudy then clears from the bottom up in a few seconds... The water appears to be gassing offas it clears. The popular opinion for the reason the airburst occurring in the hot water taps is because as the water goes into the hot water tank and as it gasses off there is no where for the gas to go but out the pipes when the tap is turned on... So it sounds like air in pipes or gas in pipes is natural ocurance and I am looking for economical ways to gas off the water before it goes into the system . Maybe in the well itself or I guess some kind of aeration tank to pump water into and let it gas off then pump it into the house...

G

hkstroud · Jan 21, 2016, 06:31 PM

as the pump is at 220'

John (jlisenbe) is just not thinking. If the pump is submersible (at the bottom of the well) it is not a jet pump. John is great on jet pumps. Some jet pumps have one pipe and some have two pipes.

The majority seem to think there is hydrogen sulphide gas in the well

I have trouble with that logic unless your well has a pit less adapter and the well casing is capped off.

If so, remove the cap and see what happens.

nampcy · Jan 21, 2016, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

John (jlisenbe) is just not thinking. If the pump is submersible (at the bottom of the well) it is not a jet pump. John is great on jet pumps. Some jet pumps have one pipe and some have two pipes.

I have trouble with that logic unless your well has a pit less adapter and the well casing is capped off.

If so, remove the cap and see what happens.

Hi not sure what a pitless adapter is and if I have one. What is its purpose? I will ask the guy who installed the well pump if there is one there. The well is capped off and I did think of taking the cap off but am holding off until I can get something that will keep critters from going in.. . Also it appears the gassing off doesn't occur unless the water is agitated... so not sure if just removing thecap would resolve the problem

Also just a followup was reading a article from government of Alberta on how to get rid of gas in a well...One remedy they speak of is a gas sleeve over the pump. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of such an sleeve

http://environment.gov.ab.ca/info/library/8347.pdf

G

hkstroud · Jan 21, 2016, 09:04 PM

A pit less adapter is just a way of connecting the well pipe to the house piping underground. Let's say that the frost line in your area is 2 feet. That means the house piping must come into the well casing 2 feet below ground. No way are you going to reach 2 feet down a well casing to make the connection. The pit less adapter is used to make the connection.

The real question was whether the well casing is capped. Apparently it is, so I suggest that you remove the cap and cover the casing with some nylon landscaping fabric to keep the insects and frogs out.

If the hydrogen sulfide gas logic is correct, that should allow the gas to escape directly from the well.

Correction.
After googling "hydrogen sulfide", it can be detected with an meter, it has an odor (rotten eggs) and is heaver that air.

Being that it is heaver than air, opening the well casing is not likely to solve the problem if it is indeed hydrogen sulfide gas.

Google hydrogen sulfide.

I would still remove the cap just to see what happens.

What I found interesting in the article you referenced

The ability of water to hold gas varies with
temperature and pressure. As temperature
increases, the amount of gas released also
increases. As a result, spurting from the hot
water tap is often worse than from the cold tap.

If you have gas in your well, it may be
possible to lower the pump intake to below
the depth where the gas is entering the well

For this reason, the well cap
should be vented to divert the gas to the
open atmosphere

talaniman · Jan 22, 2016, 05:40 AM

Why isn't the hot water tank vented?

hkstroud · Jan 22, 2016, 06:32 AM

Come on Tal, you are not thinking.
A water heater tank is a pressurized tank. If it were vented the water would come out.
Granted, if it is a gas water heater there is a vent for the burner but that of course is not a vent for the tank itself.

jlisenbe · Jan 22, 2016, 07:14 AM

HK, I just assumed (you know about that word) that with a water depth that was relatively shallow (30'), this was a jetpump setup. Also failed to see this little item...

Pump is in the ground at a depth of 220'.

I think you have a point about venting the well, but failing that, nam might consider a filter. This might be a good site to start with: http://www.wellowner.org/water-quali...rogen-sulfide/

This site also suggested shocking the well as the hydrogen sulfide is due, they said, to bacterial action in the well.

Mike45plus · Jan 22, 2016, 09:06 AM

Nampcy,
You may have the new generation of water pump that operates by providing constant velocity based on flow rates. These pumps use electronic commutated motors to vary the water delivery rate as needed - they are very efficient while providing up to 80 psi continuously, and, they operate without a storage tank.

I suggest checking your well water chemistry for possible reaction with the water heater annode rod, or reaction with accumulated sediment / minerals in the tank...

nampcy · Jan 22, 2016, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mike45plus

Nampcy,
You may have the new generation of water pump that operates by providing constant velocity based on flow rates. These pumps use electronic commutated motors to vary the water delivery rate as needed - they are very efficient while providing up to 80 psi continuously, and, they operate without a storage tank.

I suggest checking your well water chemistry for possible reaction with the water heater annode rod, or reaction with accumulated sediment / minerals in the tank...

Hi Yes you are correct. The submersible pump is a Tesla 3/4 hp pump c/w 1.5 hp Tesla 3ph 230 v motor and a DAB constant pressure 3ph pump driver.

I have a well guy coming to install a gas sleeve at the end of the pump and vented cap for the top of the well... I am also going to install a catalytic carbon was media filter.. He thinks this will help with the removable of the H2S... I am hopeing not to have to install and cistern or gas off tank.

G

hkstroud · Jan 22, 2016, 04:55 PM

Something you may want to consider. Hot water heating system sometimes have an automatic bleeder valve to purge the system of air.
Such a valve on the hot water out piping of the water heater may help.

nampcy · Jan 22, 2016, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Something you may want to consider. Hot water heating system sometimes have an automatic bleeder valve to purge the system of air.
Such a valve on the hot water out piping of the water heater may help.

Hi thanks for the tip I was wondering if such a beast existed... I will be sure to ask the plumber contractor about this

G

talaniman · Jan 23, 2016, 08:27 AM

Google auto air vent valves for water heaters. Here is but one example

Maid-O\'-Mist® - Automatic Air Valves - Jacobus Steam Vents - Float Control Valves - Saddle Valves - Illinois

nampcy · Jan 23, 2016, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Google auto air vent valves for water heaters. Here is but one example

Maid-O\'-Mist® - Automatic Air Valves - Jacobus Steam Vents - Float Control Valves - Saddle Valves - Illinois

I am using a electrical hot water tank for hot water only... so not sure if this will work. It looks like these are meant for a radiant heating system.. But worth asking the plumber. Thanks for the link