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    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 15,675, Reputation: 1012
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    #21

    Sep 20, 2016, 02:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ebaines View Post
    I'm sorry that I am not able to communicate to you that voltage is not the same thing as power. Let's try a different tact - please see the attached circuit and tell me if you think the fan will run, and why or why not. Note that the wind turbine generates a greater voltage than the fan requires.
    Good example. Looks great when you see 20 V but not so good with 300 mA. You always amaze me with your depth of knowledge.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #22

    Sep 20, 2016, 11:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ebaines View Post
    I'm sorry that I am not able to communicate to you that voltage is not the same thing as power. Let's try a different tact - please see the attached circuit and tell me if you think the fan will run, and why or why not. Note that the wind turbine generates a greater voltage than the fan requires.

    Dear sir,

    Thank you for your answer but I want to know that if we use 10 no.
    'SHAKE FLASHLIGHT' and attached these 10 flashlight with the seesaw system as per my sketch and press this seesaw with the help of our hand power then we will have to insert ten time force or only little force equal to light up a single flash light and in other words suppose I attached a magnet(remove from shake flashlight) with seesaw system and this magnet is passing through a coil(also removed from shake flashlight) and now with the help of my hand I 'm pressing the seesaw system to generate energy and obviously energy will be generated but when I attach ten no. magnets to passing through the 10 n0. Coil then will I have to press this balanced seesaw system ten times more or not or can I light up these 10 no. flashlight only with the pressure equal to light up single flashlight.I would also like to know that what kind of motor should I use to move pass the single coil+magnet system to generate the 1.5 volt energy using balanced seesaw system?
    Note seesaw is in balance position and each flashlight circuit is separate with another or freely generating energy.

    Please answer me only this question as I 'm going to prepare a working model of this device and sorry as my english is weak but I hope that you have understood what I want to tell.

    Please tell me and this is last time

    vikram
    ebaines's Avatar
    ebaines Posts: 12,131, Reputation: 1307
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    #23

    Sep 21, 2016, 05:47 AM
    It should be clear by now that the mechanical power required to move your magnet(s) through the coil(s) is dependent on the amount of electrical power the coils need to generate in order to operate the electrical system they are connected to. Since mechanical power = force time velocity, the force needed is equal to that amount of power divided by the velocity of the moving magnets. So ... if you have one coil connected to a circuit that requires 1 watt of power, the motor that drives the seesaw must provide at least one watt of mechanical power. If you have ten coils all connected together so that they drive a single circuit that requires 1 watt of power, the motor must again provide at least 1 watt of mechanical power. But if you have ten coils wired to separate circuits that each require 1 watt (i.e. ten watts total), then the motor must deliver at least 10 watts of mechanical power.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #24

    Oct 3, 2016, 12:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by InfoJunkie4Life View Post
    Friend,

    The concept of any perpetual motion machine is against all of the laws of physics. Primarily the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy. You may also consider Newton's 3 Laws of Motion to observe how force in transferred between objects in the form of inertia and using acceleration. Similarly this can be observed in pressure systems where Bernoulli's Principle can be observed in transference of pressures and moment forces. Likewise in electrical systems there is a relation between voltage and amperage called Power. The Magnetic Force on wires can be defined in similar principles.

    All types of energy transference share 2 things in common.

    1.) The total power inputted into a system is equal to the total power expelled from the system.

    2.) No system operates without resistance which dissipates these forces into heat or other ambient radiation, reducing the power output as much as the heat/light/magnetic loss that is emitted from the system.

    Storing power in a state of Potential Energy is calculable in the same metrics. Energy input is less than output. We can never seem to break this rule.

    Given this we have developed use of fairly dense potential energy sources, i.e.. Wood, coal, oil, radioactive metals, light, geothermic energy etc. But still some force had to exercise on that energy to produce the potential.

    No matter how you look at it, energy has to come from somewhere. The concept of free-energy in physics is considered an absurdity, however, the collection of ambient energy can be free.

    Sir, I have done some experiment and I'm glowing up 10 no. lights with the equal force to light up a single light using this seesaw system.
    InfoJunkie4Life's Avatar
    InfoJunkie4Life Posts: 1,409, Reputation: 81
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    #25

    Oct 3, 2016, 07:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by vikram_gupta11 View Post
    Sir, I have done some experiment and I'm glowing up 10 no. lights with the equal force to light up a single light using this seesaw system.
    Equal Force?

    This is not possible. It is possible to light up one or ten or even a hundred lights without actually increasing the speed of the motor or the amount of coils, etc. but a coil will act upon the magnet with resistance. The greater the draw, the greater the resistance. If you draw ten times the current then you will find that it requires roughly ten times the force.

    I must ask, how are you measuring force. Are you using a ammeter and voltmeter to indicate power draw across the wires leading to the motor? This combined with the efficiency of the motor could indicate exactly how much force you are dissipating into the coils. Are you putting a dynamometer on your 3-volt motor to measure the torque and power?

    You can make some nifty devices that transfer power from one state to another, but in the end the system must consume power to continue running. If you recycle as much of the power as possible using superconductors and vacuum chambers, along with mag-lev technology, you might be able to create a system that will spin for years, maybe even more, but in the end, it has to slow down as it dissipates power. Furthermore, if you try to siphon power out of that system to power another system, then it will slow down proportionately to the power consumed.

    I do not think you are understanding the responses you were given. Maybe this article will help:

    Perpetual Motion---हिन्दी---தமிழ்---മലയാളം
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #26

    Oct 3, 2016, 11:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by InfoJunkie4Life View Post
    Equal Force?

    This is not possible. It is possible to light up one or ten or even a hundred lights without actually increasing the speed of the motor or the amount of coils, etc. but a coil will act upon the magnet with resistance. The greater the draw, the greater the resistance. If you draw ten times the current then you will find that it requires roughly ten times the force.

    I must ask, how are you measuring force. Are you using a ammeter and voltmeter to indicate power draw across the wires leading to the motor? This combined with the efficiency of the motor could indicate exactly how much force you are dissipating into the coils. Are you putting a dynamometer on your 3-volt motor to measure the torque and power?

    You can make some nifty devices that transfer power from one state to another, but in the end the system must consume power to continue running. If you recycle as much of the power as possible using superconductors and vacuum chambers, along with mag-lev technology, you might be able to create a system that will spin for years, maybe even more, but in the end, it has to slow down as it dissipates power. Furthermore, if you try to siphon power out of that system to power another system, then it will slow down proportionately to the power consumed.

    I do not think you are understanding the responses you were given. Maybe this article will help:

    Perpetual Motion---हिन्दी---தமிழ்---മലയാളം
    Dear Sir,
    I'm not shaking flashlight but I'm shaking the seesaw system and this seesaw will work to shake equally of all attached flashlights with the equal amount of force to shake a single flashlight .so why there is no more output than input.
    Can you please tell me that how much force is required to shake a flashlight if we want to get 1.5 volt and just 1 amp with this flashlight so that I could prove it mathematically also.
    It is not only a matter of physics law that it is breaking the law but also a matter of 'common sense'.
    InfoJunkie4Life's Avatar
    InfoJunkie4Life Posts: 1,409, Reputation: 81
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    #27

    Oct 4, 2016, 03:17 PM
    Viable question.

    In a system involving shaking an object, we can calculate the force needed to move, and change direction of an object.



    Shaking the object horizontally in a perfect line (for calculation reasons) the object would start at point A and accelerate towards point B, decelerating and stopping at point B, then repeating in reverse.

    The force is dependent upon both the Mass and the change in speed. It will require X-amount of force to speed it up, and then again an equal amount of energy to stop it. Then repeat in reverse, and repeat and repeat and repeat. That force is transferred into your coils, producing electricity. By shaking ten objects, the amount of mass has increased ten times, requiring ten times the force to complete a cycle.

    It may feel like the same amount of force or follow the same pattern of shaking, but the object could not move with the same acceleration as ten objects if the same force were applied when accelerated, it would accelerate at one tenth the speed.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #28

    Oct 4, 2016, 08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by InfoJunkie4Life View Post
    Viable question.

    In a system involving shaking an object, we can calculate the force needed to move, and change direction of an object.



    Shaking the object horizontally in a perfect line (for calculation reasons) the object would start at point A and accelerate towards point B, decelerating and stopping at point B, then repeating in reverse.

    The force is dependent upon both the Mass and the change in speed. It will require X-amount of force to speed it up, and then again an equal amount of energy to stop it. Then repeat in reverse, and repeat and repeat and repeat. That force is transferred into your coils, producing electricity. By shaking ten objects, the amount of mass has increased ten times, requiring ten times the force to complete a cycle.

    It may feel like the same amount of force or follow the same pattern of shaking, but the object could not move with the same acceleration as ten objects if the same force were applied when accelerated, it would accelerate at one tenth the speed.

    Dear Sir,
    it is clear that you have not understood my concept clearly what I want to say.But no problem just do this simple experiment.

    take a scale and make a hole in the middle of this scale and now attach 10 no.flashlights(shaking flashlights) on the this scale (each arm 5 no. flashlights so that this scale get balanced position).
    now turn this scale in left and right direction horizontally towards 2 to 3 centimeter only .you will see the magic that all ten no. flashlightThese flashlights are mounted permanently ,horizontally on the both Arms of a seesaw(making+ symbol and view my sketches) and this seesaw will move side to side just 2 to 4 centimeter only.remember we will only shake the only one arm of this seesaw with corner and flashlights will not slide as these are mounted permanently on the arm of this seesaw.

    suppose if a flashlight require 10 watt power to glow up then we will have to apply 20 watt so that so that this 20 watt input could also counter some mechanical loss also.but this 20 watt input will be sufficient to glow up these 10 flashlights as all flashlight are permanently attached on this seesaw so each will shake with equal force or applying force will be equally distributed in these flashlights.. in other words we are giving 20 watt input and out put is 150 watt with these 10 no. flashlight.we can do it with our hand power to test it to shaking the seesaw.. these all flashlights are shaking with equal amount of force and mechanical loss is very very less .

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